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Traditional taxi services are horrible all over the world, I don't think a lot of people will dispute that.

The problem with things such as Uber, and the "gig economy" in general, is that they provide a better service by condemning the people who provide it to an unstable and undignified life. The new underclass, the one that lives "below the API", is denied the opportunity to live something remotely approaching a fulfilling existence. The more this underclass grows (and it is growing), the worse society becomes. This social cost is not worth more convenient services. There has to be a better way. Taxis should get their act together, but not by being forced to compete with those who sidestep the laws that were democratically enacted to preserve human dignity, and to give the less privileged opportunities to improve their situation.

> give the less privileged opportunities to improve their situation.

Isn’t that exactly what the gig economy does? What would Uber drivers be doing if uber ceased to exist? Why aren’t they doing that now?

> Isn’t that exactly what the gig economy does?

No. Inequality is increasing every year.

> What would Uber drivers be doing if uber ceased to exist?

Depends on the reason for Uber ceasing to exist. If Uber went bankrupt, they would probably be riding a bike to deliver food in big cities or being micromanaged by computer programs for 12 hours at a time in some warehouse, being cogs in a machine that provides outstanding customer service to those lucky enough to be able to live in less dystopic conditions.

In a scenario where big companies and rich people are finally forced to pay their taxes and respect human rights, they might be applying for stable jobs as the baby boomers once did, or taking advantage of grants (that would become possible because of said taxation) to further their education. They might be engaged in something meaningful that improves our collective condition, instead of helping make some of us a bit more comfortable while we deplete our natural resources and destroy our own habitat.

> Inequality is increasing every year.

This is a non sequitur. Inequality doesn’t need to go down for workers to get better living conditions.

> they would probably be riding a bike to deliver food [...] or being micromanaged by computer programs [...], being cogs in a machine [...]

So Uber does make their life better.

> In a scenario where big companies and rich people are finally forced to pay their taxes and respect human rights

How much money should Uber give to politicians to spend inneficiently or to be lost in corruption before you consider them to be respecting human rights?

> They might be engaged in something meaningful that improves our collective condition

Providing comfort is a service that improves our collective condition.

> This is a non sequitur. Inequality doesn’t need to go down for workers to get better living conditions.

Even if this was true, and there is a mountain of empirical data suggesting it isn't, do you really believe inequality can just keep increasing and everything will be fine?

> So Uber does make their life better.

Well, Uber drivers are cogs in a machine and micromanaged by computer programs, but at least they drive a car. Perhaps biking would be healthier for them, but on the other hand there are some who have to live in the car, so I guess you're right.

> How much money should Uber give to politicians to spend inneficiently or to be lost in corruption before you consider them to be respecting human rights?

Whatever the law of each country they are operating on says + respecting the local labor laws instead of pretending that their employees are not employees. It's not for Uber of any other company to decide weather the politicians and the laws they enact are good or not. That's the job of the voters.

> Providing comfort is a service that improves our collective condition.

Seems like a bit of a zero-sum game to me. Some people's lives become less comfortable so that other's can become more comfortable. But comfort is pretty irrelevant in face of the real existential threats that we are facing, in part being caused by the current infinite growth economical paradigm.

> Even if this was true, and there is a mountain of empirical data suggesting it isn't, [...]

On the contrary, it's pretty clear that living conditions have been historically getting better worldwide. See, for example, Hans Rosling.

> Whatever the law of each country they are operating on says [...]

Why are there any Uber drivers then? Why don't they choose to work instead of traditional jobs instead of being, according to you, a micromanaged cog with no human rights?

> Some people's lives become less comfortable so that other's can become more comfortable.

Are they less comfortable driving an Uber than they would be in the job they would get in case there was no Uber?

> in part being caused by the current infinite growth economical paradigm

If you want the quality of life of people living in undeveloped countries to increase, there's no alternative to economical growth. You probably live in a country which has already been through this process, but preventing others from growing in the name of supposed existential threats is condemning their population to poverty.

I've used shitty cabs in some places, including the US where they were surprisingly poor. So I can understand Uber has some appeal.

Here in the UK it's Uber that needs to get a clue. After a few tries of Uber I just use cabs as they're consistently reliable and have a clue where they're going, and local rat runs. Without needing to piss about with the sat nav. I've never had a cab driver phone me to ask where I'm going then not show. Uber have done this twice. So they score near zero for reliability which is what I need from a vehicle service.

Just as well really considering the assorted revelations about their dodgy practices.

> I've never had a cab driver phone me to ask where I'm going then not show. Uber have done this twice.

They do that in the UK a lot because they don't like the ride, so they cancel. When they call me I always act like I cannot hear them (which is often the case) and then they always turn up. I don't think they are supposed to know where you are going before they arrive.

Interesting. I didn't realise that was the game, or how to play. :)

With cabs they've known destination first for ages unless you hail. Kind of hard on the Uber drivers if they don't know if it's a 10 minute or 2 hr drive ahead.

I have had quotes of 400 GBP for a cab (and multiple companies) vs < 100 GBP for Uber for long distance.

Is this because the cost of the taxi includes milage for the return to a base location? Taxis have been doing this sort of thing for a long time, so they include all the costs in their pricing models. Uber is designed for short hops around a city where there are rides to pick up in lots of locations. I strongly suspect that means the cost of the Uber doesn't include anything for the return trip so the driver will just have to suck up that cost. If taking long trips in an Uber gets popular you'll either see the cost go up or you'll never get a driver to accept the ride.

This is definitely wrong. In multiple conversations with Uber drivers, they prefer the longer trips as it makes them more money. They are able to not take long trips if they prefer (although they don't know the exact destination before accepting a trip, they are told if it is long one), and choose to do so.

Also Uber allows the drivers to get customers wherever they are. After a long trip they can work that area for a while and maybe make their way back home. With a local taxi company if a driver is out of the area they serve then they have no customers.

Yep, this is very nice of Uber actually; I usually have to travel (for work) to a remote area where there is no Uber (and normal cabs are always full); if you pay attention, you will find an Uber driving back to London passing by and just take that one.

When traveling in Dominican Republic, I asked an Uber driver on a 10 minute trip about my planned 30 minute trip to the airport on the following day, and he told me no drivers like to accept those due to the unpaid drive back. The next day, I made sure to tip my driver and mention this fact and he really appreciated it.

Not sure if Uber pricing never includes the trip back, or if it's country-specific.

I assumed it is country specific; in some countries they prefer long trips, in others they try to get rid of them. Like call upfront to ask where you're going and if it's too far they cancel. But I am indeed not sure. I always tip on long distance anyway unless they were really rude.

> ...or you'll never get a driver to accept the ride.

Uber drivers don't see your destination before they accept the ride. They see the pickup address, customer rating, and the type of the ride (UberX, UberPOOL, UberSELECT).

Yeah they try to get your destination upfront by calling which they are not supposed to and then cancel if too long or too short.

> We see a LOT of rivaling apps by/for the taxi companies or just by a regional company because they don't want to give their money to a US company, but most of them are absolutely awful. The ones I tried in Barcelona were unusable, unreliable and just generally crap.

Have you tried mytaxi? It works in many cities all over Europe (including Barcelone) and in my experience works pretty well, including the GPS feature and getting a ride immediately.

I was going to say the same thing.

It's almost exactly the same as Uber, open the app, enter a destination, a taxi picks you up and you pay through the app when you're done. In Berlin prices are very similar.

>Uber is definitely not perfect as a business but the taxi companies are horrible all over the place. If taxi companies would just enter the 21st century, I would maybe never use Uber but the thing is, they don't.

I never really understood this sentiment. This may be different in other countries, but in Western European cities, taxis are usually dependable and affordable. Just walk to the next taxi stand or hail the first one coming by.

I don't know... I have been cursed and spat at by multiple taxi driver in Portugal and Spain (always because they thought the ride was too short and they need to get back to the end of the queue so really shitty for them hence my 21st century sentiment). And you cannot really complain; you can fill in a form which no-one ever does anything with. With Uber all of that is just better.

And dependable... I missed my plane a month ago because the cab driver stood around the wrong corner for 10 minutes, did not contact me and went away again. The company called me hours later when their office opened (this was a 6 am flight) and berated me for not turning up. It's rubbish.

I have had quotes of 400 GBP for a cab (and multiple companies) vs < 100 GBP for Uber for long distance.

Sure, since about £200 of your trip are paid for by venture capitalists they can afford to offer such rates.

uber IS the taxi of the 21st Century.