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Comment by ones_and_zeros | Hacker News Reader

A great improvement would be to give them citizenship if they want it.

The economic impact of immigrants is not under debate, however your examples are poor choices as I don't think any of those people came to the US on an H1B visa. If anything it's an argument against H1B.

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Yep, totally where I was going with that. One H1-B guy I worked with did in fact become a founder of a small successful firm, but that was after he got a green card.

I think we've lost out on a few billion dollar startups and awesome inventions by locking people to the H1-B job they got hired for.

>>A great improvement would be to give them citizenship if they want it.

All H1B holders are more than eager to become citizens and currently there is already a pathway defined but the system is a nightmare.

Especially countries like India which are enormously backlogged.

It’s like saying some retaurants are started by immigrants so don’t complain that every kitchen is staffed by undocumented workers

H1B's are immigrant visas, they terminate in greencards after one renewal. The only problem is that a few countries have long lines (India, China, Philippines) on how many greencards can be granted this way per year. That should be done away with.

There is nothing in the H1B that entitles you to a green card. You can only renew the H1B once, so after that you need to either somehow get a green card or leave the U.S.

Although the previous comment is very incorrect, this information is also not correct.

The greencard process is a multi step, often many year process. If you are from a country with per country limits you can be approved for a green card, which will allow your H1B to be renewed indefinitely, but you still have the alien conditions including needing to maintain the same/similar employment.

They don't "terminate" in GC but rest of your comment is correct.

They terminate in a GC or you go home. Only one renewal, not like the work visa I had in China that could be renewed indefinitely with no path to permanent residency.

This is false. Once you're past a certain point in the GC process, you will renew your status each year.

But at that point you are approved for a GC and are just waiting for the country quota.

Can still fail the i485 interview

and if you are born in India or China, you wont get a GC until you are in your 80's

> H1B's are immigrant visas

No, H-1B visas are explicitly nonimmigrant visas for temporary workers. [1]

> They terminate in greencards after one renewal

No, they don't. You can apply for a GC, but there's nothing automatic about the process, and the GC is not guaranteed to be approved either.

[1] https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...

No. It's dual-intent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent

The term Immigrant Visa in US immigration specifically refers to a visa that would confer permanent residency (i.e. green card) upon entry to the US. H-1B is definitely not one. It is a non-immigrant visa. Immigration intent, e.g. “dual intent” that you are referring to is distinct from the fact that H-1B is a non-immigrant visa. It simply refers to whether you are eligible for the non-immigrant visa if you have a predisposed intent to immigrate permanently in the future. For example, if you are applying for a non-immigrant visa with non-immigrant intent like F-1, you are asserting that you do not intend to permanently immigrate at the time of your application. Dual intent visas do not have such restriction, thus you can apply for a green card without jeopardizing your eligibility for a dual-intent non-immigrant visa, but that does not mean the non-immigrant visa comes with the privilege or path of immigration in and of itself or confers any such benefit.

H1-B are non-immigrant visas in the sense they are temporary. However, they are dual-intent which means you can pursue permanent residency while in H1-B status.

I don't think any of those people came to the US on an H1B visa

H1-B is one of the main ways people get a green card and citizenship since you can have immigrant intent on H1-B, something you can't on a lot of other visas.

H-1B visas fall under the doctrine of dual intent, though, so isn't that already the case? Having the H-1B does not preclude someone from seeking out a green card.

Or am I misunderstanding your first statement?

You are. If they are skilled, lawful and desire to become citizens they should be given a green card after 1 year on the spot.

I’d say we reciprocate what their gov would do for our workers. Their gov makes easy for Americans, we make it easy for them. They make it hard on Americans trying to work in their country, we make it hard on them.

Fair is fair.

See your argument is short sighted, as these people provide economic benefit, it’s in your interest to allow as many as you can in while the other countries aren’t interested in taking your best and brightest. It’s why Canada’s tech sector stands to gain hugely while America squanders its lead. Canada’s letting in anyone smart and technical and the US is telling them no. What were arguing for is being unfair in America’s favor.

Countries should do what makes sense for them. Canada is behind, they want to jump start their tech sector. They’re not a challenge to the US, China, Japan or even Russia. So good on them. We have a need for some specialists and we have a need for many low skills laborers. We need a system to evaluate need, address it appropriately and manage the foreign workforce to the advantage of Americans. Panama is free to invite all the high skilled labor if they want and become a tech power too. Let them. I encourage it.

Don’t you want America to stay ahead? I’m getting dizzy from all these moving goalposts.

Canada is just about a tenth of our pop. Worrying about them is like worrying about Japan taking over the world in 1990. It’s not possible due to population realities. Let them succeed a little.

This is the strangest anti-immigration stance I’ve ever heard: don’t let them in so the small countries can win a round or two. I mean, ok, you win this one? Maybe this is what being tired of winning looks like ;)

I don't know about what's in America's favor. I know for a fact that I would not willingly compete with all software developers in a global marketplace. I'd lose my big4 job in a split second. Canada's tech sector may stand to gain, but I'd lose half my real income if I were to relocate to a sister office across the border. So much for progressive visa policy.

Given the choice, that half the salary would still seem attractive? Isn't it. Now being in same time zone, closer to US SV, native s/w engineers would have to compete fiercely. I wonder, how would folks react over competition with Canadian tech industry.

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