Comment by throwaway012919 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwaway012919 | Hacker News Reader

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throwaway012919

Posting from a throwaway account since I don't really like to draw attention to this in general.

I intentionally decided not to attend a university and instead work hard and learn in the field. Instead of CS classes I read the core works and learned concepts through building things and working with experts around me. There are amazingly smart people in every company who love to teach others what they know.

Over the course of 20 years I worked at fortune 500s, tech giants, and startups, learning and building every day.

Eventually I was given the opportunity to build small teams and learn to effectively lead people. Through lots of help from those around me and research about effective leadership, I was able to move up as I demonstrated execution and results.

Today I hold the title of VP of Engineering at a growing startup in the enterprise space. We're doing very well and I'm continuing to learn every day.

The message here? It's not for everyone, but a degree is a piece of paper. It may get you in the door, but so will a track record. You may find you need both, but you certainly need the last one to make a successful career in any industry.

I think the "piece of paper" question depends on one factor that few people seem to mention: timing.

I started my career in 2000, literally at the tail end of the dot com boom. I got my foot in the door right right before the door slammed shut for a little while. While I DO have a degree, it's not in engineering, math or any hard science. I got in because "Linux Systems Administrator" was so in demand, even during recessionary times, that it was easy to get in the door someplace. Then I was in a busy metropolitan area with an industry that relied on Linux/Unix (finance). For what it's worth, my state school cost under 6K a year, as well, with no aid.

Would I have the same luck today? I'm not so sure.

If it makes anyone feel better, your luck flips somewhat as you get older, the funnel gets tighter and you have to compete with hipster tech that people with 4-5 years of experience (and engineering/science degrees) have. Hipster technology (defined as buzzword tech) includes: some of the latest JS frameworks, Kubernetes/microservices, and more. However, in the enterprise world us oldies do quite well for ourselves as wisdom is recognized -- AS IS, circling back -- being able to learn new tech quickly. Proprietary environments with very complex systems appreciate those people and aren't deterred by degrees or hipster tech missing.

I actually withdrew from college to accept a job in 2000 for exactly this reason. The writing was on the wall for those who knew how to read it, and I knew if I didn't get an offer right away I probably wouldn't get one for years.

The piece of paper is good for getting past the initial sieve of candidates that is an HR department.

'The piece of paper' matters beyond that. Alumni networks are a thing. And people like to help their Alumni, because they hope to get the same in return.

Maybe for private schools, but my UC degree hasn't helped an iota with that

HR's lack of competence in this area is one reason why engineering referrals are the best way to get quality candidates.

If you don't mind me asking, do you think the same holds true for someone looking to work in another country?

I have just started my career in development in Brazil, without a degree. However, I was considering getting one in order to improve my chances of finding work in the US or Europe. Would I be better off using that time/energy working on projects and studying on my own (and accumulating work experience, of course)?

Holding a degree will help you earn value/points when you're assessed applying for a work visa

I can only speak about UK and Eastern Europe, but I think that holds true about most of Europe in general.

Dev work is generally very lax on academic credentials. Most of the time a great work record, open source contributions or other easily referenced work counts waay more than any degree you might hold.

Some startup gigs can even scoff on degrees, because it might indicate complacency rather than entrepreneurial spirit :)

A degree is a good way to get the first job.

Once you've held a job for a couple of years, it's easier to find new jobs, because the experience will speak for you.

I am actually living abroad now. I think the math is different depending on what country you are from though, choosing to be born in the US carries unfair advantages.

It depends on the country. I'm also Brazilian and got German and Australian work visas without a degree. Most of Europe should be fine. I reckon for the American one you would need at least 12y of experience. The biggest challenge is to convince the company to sponsor you since a self-sponsored visa without a degree is usually quite tough.

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