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Comment by navd | Hacker News Reader

I think like anything else, there are tiers to this profession. It's fair for someone in this position to call themselves a programmer but I think the OP is doing themselves an injustice by not taking the time to actually learn how to write code. Writings like this are fine, but a point should be made that progressing ones skillset is just as important as getting into the profession.

Otherwise, we support the notion that you don't need to learn how to solve problems to be a "Programmer". Which at its essence, is what a "Programmer" is.

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I believe this why "coding interviews" are so controversial. Different people perhaps have a different definition of "programmer".

One person may think a "programmer" should know how to design/implement algorithms, while another would say algorithms are a library implementation issue.

I agree that may be part of it.

I think coding interviews are fine as long as they aren't insane like what you see a lot these days. We just need a good metric on how to know if the person I'm interviewing can solve general problems, my problems, and has the appetite to grow more.

That's really hard.

I still find a big part of coding interviews to be just looking at the quality of someone's code. The problem I've used for years as a take home coding test is not intended to be a test of ability to implement any particularly complex algorithms or to solve unfamiliar problems on the spot but more to see how people write code in the small. Many candidates still don't make a great showing on the basics unfortunately.

> One person may think a "programmer" should know how to design/implement algorithms, while another would say algorithms are a library implementation issue.

The problem is many of us fill both definitions. One minute I could be creating a complex algorithm, the next I could copy/pasting a shell script from stack overflow and neither is necessarily a superset of the other, so which category would I put myself in?

When the only time you have needed to implement a sort algorithm in 15 years is for an interview, then it shouldn't be so controversial an opinion to say its a stupid way to interview. If the job involves writing that sort of algorithm by all means test for it, but the majority of jobs aren't.

The person who cooks and serves you a hotdog at an airport concession stand and Michelin star chef have the same job but they aren't hired to do each other's work.

Being familiar with people in the food industry, I think they'd find it pretty offensive to call someone in the role of a "cook" the same as calling someone a "chef". They have very different meanings.

That does seem like a distinction that the software industry needs to work out. The software developer differences between a cook, a sous chef, and a chef, or Nurse versus an RN versus a Doctor, or a Dental Hygienist versus a DMD, or a paralegal versus a Lawyer.

Isn't that the distinction between "Programmer" and "Architect" that some places use? Although, it isn't really standardized.

Not to me. I think the distinction between these titles are silly. Part of programming is architecting applications. There really isn't a way out of it unless you've just been maintaining and patching up existing code your entire life.

I'm not settled. Do you see a difference between designing and implementing? From experience, I do... but I'll happily hear other opinions.

The line seems blurred. I've found the end result is much more desirable designing and iterating on existing code as you implement.

I didn't call anyone a cook. I mention someone who cooks. Chefs cook too (if they are any good).

Sure. But I think capital 'C' Chefs would argue that they don't just cook. I think there's something of a semantic difference.

Do we really need to start taking offense to this sort of thing? Does it improve the world in any way? Remember offense is something that you choose to take.

I'm think I'm fairly summarizing your comment: as a programmer you are obligated to be constantly learning the craft — constantly "leveling up".

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