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Comment by boltzmannbrain | Hacker News Reader

Curbside security guard asked a couple basic questions ("How long were you in Israel? Where are you traveling to?"). The guard at the first security gate inside asked ~20 questions (4-8 is normal). I think answering that I'm a SW engineer to "What do you do for a living?" made her suspicious. I was then directed to a side security area where they searched my bags and discovered my laptop. A few guards then escorted me to a side room. Here there was one guard interrogating me on and off for ~2 hours. Just about any question I asked was met with "We can't tell you that." They confiscated my laptop b/c they had to "run more tests". I said several times I would wait for the tests, but they 'insisted' I leave. As soon as I was through security I went to Turkish airlines for help, but their immediate (read: scripted) response was "We do not deal with airport security."

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What you experienced is not rare at all for travel through Israel. Answering that you're a SW engineer is not suspicious, it's how you answer that they're trained to look at. The questions are basically irrelevant. You and your equipment got flagged.

Once when I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens, I got about 200 questions in the space of 5 minutes, from 3 different people. When I mentioned who I used to work for, they asked me what that kind of work entailed, what did my office building look like, what city was it in, where was I living at that time, why was I living somewhere else, etc. I got the same questions multiple times, spaced apart.

They don't actually give a crap what my old office building looked like. They're looking for responses that appear delayed, evasive, made up.

After the questions I had to follow them to another room to have my bags meticulously inspected and scanned. They then checked my bags for me (breaking my zipper in the process - and no, the airline didn't do jack about it) and finally let me board. After I was on, they barged on and insisted some older passenger who had been sitting quietly leave the plane immediately while it was on the tarmac, and left.

Traveling through Israel is a pain in the ass.

>I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens

I think you mean the other way around. If you are being asked all these questions the flight was from TLV to Athens. Right?

Israel has people on the ground around the world. Hard learned lesson after too many hijacked planes.

See for example the "Hindawi affair"

https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th...

This wasn't an ElAl flight, so I don't understand why they care.

No, it was Athens to TLV. I should mention that this was an El Al flight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al#Airport_security_measure...

"El Al security procedures require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. Passengers are asked questions about their place of origin, the reason for their trip, their job or occupation, and whether they have packed their bags themselves. [...] Even at overseas airports, El Al security agents conduct all luggage searches personally, even if they are supervised by government or private security firms."

I've also faced heightened security traveling from TLV to other airports, featuring another barrage of questions and extra screening. But to their credit, they helped me skip some lines and get to the plane just before it left.

I was there with Israel airport a few times. Almost every time I have company "letter" to "precheck" me with the airport security.

There was one time, the company missed issue me that letter. I had to go thru the 2 hours security hell which they inspected and questioned everything.

After that, I have decided that I would never go back to Israel again for biz or any other purposes. It is just not worth it.

> They're looking for responses that appear delayed, evasive, made up

Exactly. AFIK I responded normally.

Not to mention someone actually doing something malicious with their computer probably wouldn't tell security they're a SW eng.

It's also possible that Israel took the laptop because they knew where this person worked as a software engineer. Since processes like these enjoy opacity the outside is left to speculate.

They know you work in advanced technology and stole it. Your work could be applied to military use.

> As soon as I was through security I went to Turkish airlines for help, but their immediate (read: scripted) response was "We do not deal with airport security."

Well isn't this true? I am sorry for your ordeal but there is nothing an airline can do with this matter. Have you tried contacting the airport itself?

If you're taken away for too long, you may miss your flight. I'd hope that the airline would put you on the next one, despite them not having to do so.

What does that have to do with this situation?

It would be an airline providing what help they can for a situation that wasn't the passenger's fault

Definitely not something the airline has anything to do with. I can complain to American about the TSA, but it’s going to do just as much as complaining to them about the price of the sandwich at Subway.

I just assume there must be 1000s, perhaps 10s of 1000s of people who answer "software engineer" in any given month.

None of this makes sense on the face of it. I wonder if you were connected to a network that was compromised and they tracked your computer? Also unlikely.

Do you think the last person you talked to was just having a bad day and as you got annoyed you triggered them and they took it on you?

Disclaimer: I've never traveled to or through Israel.

As others have referenced, Israeli airport security use profiling extensively. The questions that are asked are almost (but not quite) irrelevant - they are trained to gauge a person's reactions, their unconscious biological responses, etc.

It seems likely to me that what they keyed in on wasn't the author's questions, responses, or even their general attitude, but the overall resistance to having their laptop searched. The distinction between "I resent this process and need my laptop for work" and "If they take my laptop I'm going to be in trouble" is probably below the threshold of their training. I'd even say it's possible that the author's reaction to having their laptop confiscated was part of the profiling technique.

The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process.

> The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process.

I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the rationale allowing continued travel, but not allowing continued travel with the laptop. Can anyone here shed a bit of light on this?

Perhaps they cued in on their nervousness, decided that they weren't a threat, but also decided that their laptop might contain evidence of a crime (e.g., industrial espionage).

As you point out

> The distinction between "I resent this process and need my laptop for work" and "If they take my laptop I'm going to be in trouble" is probably below the threshold of their training.

And I agree with you. But 1000s of people must resent the process and need their laptops! If they picked up on that, they would have to confiscate laptops approaching 100% of the time they asked people questions about it.

I am sorry for what happened to you. I really am.

I heard before that Israeli security can be scary if they sense you went to either Palestinian areas or some of their flags get triggered. But no excuse for them to do what they do.

I hope you raising this issue help you get your laptop back.

I personally worry that they might take my laptop from me and install some spyware, so I try not to carry one, or if I do, travel with Chromebook. Whenever I can get away without carrying laptop, it is huge relief to just breeze through customs. Essentially excuses they have to talk to you are diminished and potential for some unpleasant interaction are greatly reduced.

I carry Kindle and if I have to Chromebook, life is much simpler. Friends borrow me their laptops if I have to do some work.

Again, sorry for what is happening to you, I can't even imagine how horrible you are feeling, hope for quick and positive resolution.

Thank you. It was an unfortunate learning lesson. Even if I do get my laptop back it won't be usable -- I have to assume they've gone through it and tampered somehow.

Chromebook + https://www.paperspace.com/ may be a solution

I know, you always think it is something it happens to other people. Chromebook FTW

Chromebooks won't work in China, where the Great Firewall blocks most Western cloud services.

They still work fine

Curbside questions? I haven't been for a few years but don't remember any of those, just the usual "I'm asking you this because I think someone may have planted a bomb in your luggage" inside the terminal. I haven't had anything approaching that level of interrogation (can you show me any evidence of what you've been working on) since my first trip in 2010 -- which was before my first Erez stamp (that's the border post before you go into Gaza).

Did you get a taxi to the airport, or dropped from a friend?

Taxi. I've traveled to Israel a few times now and the extra questioning seems standard.

Have you traveled to other Middle East countries previously?

Contact your embassy. They will solve it

Israel does profile based on the airline. It is a reasonably ( i would actually say very well ) known fact.

The #1 destination for passengers from Ben Gurion is Istanbul flown mostly by Turkish Airlines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport#Top_destina...

I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point.

> I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point.

Oh absolutely. That also means they are very good at identifying who does and who does not "fit" the standard profile of a regular flyer for that specific flight. OP tripped something.

Good luck with that, Airline can't do anything about that. Your next best bet is to reach out to the airport again, but this time through an embassy or consulate.

Wow, sounds like a real-life nightmare. What kind of questions did they ask you during that 2-hour interrogation?

It was more of the rapid-fire "where did you stay? what did you do your previous trips to Israel?", but also asking where I got the computer from, what I use it for, why I brought it to Israel, if anyone else touched it, etc.

I presume the first thing you did when you got your laptop back is to re-image it?

Never got my laptop back.

That wouldn't necessarily remove everything evil that could potentially be done with it though.

I don't think he has received his laptop yet

Still no laptop, and no updates from Turkish Air nor the airport.

If your device has been out of your site, under the control of a well-funded government agency, and you believe that agency to be hostile then the device is compromised and the only thin you can do with it is sell it on to someone else or destroy it.

For Sale: Acme XYZ123 laptop with <specs>. Confiscated and returned by Israeli airport security. Great buy for counterintelligence agents or someone looking for a target for hardware compromise detection practice.*

* The security of the laptop, electronic devices in its vicinity, or the purchaser is not guaranteed.

I wonder if selling it on eBay with that description would increase or decrease its value.

What is your goal in this publicity? On the surface, it seems like yet another dispute with unreasonable customer service and you are using the shame tactic to get your way.

This is airport security in Israel. It's not security theater. It's the real deal. There is something in this story that is missing. You may not know what it is, but those people are really good at their jobs. Was that really your laptop? Were all the files on it really yours? Were you really just there as a SW engineer? Did you really tell them the truth to all 20 questions?

You've claimed to spend time in the country. You know how it works. The people in security make good money and have access to tons of resources ... they don't want your laptop for fun or a side hustle. If you have a grievance against the Israeli government, there is due process there just like in the US. It works as well there as it does in the US. File a suit... the courts will sort this out. (Edit: You also would have received a claim ticket for confiscated property, just like in many US jurisdictions. Something is missing from this story.)

Publicity just makes you look like you are acting in bad faith.

if getting shaken down is part of the risk of flying through israel then it’s a public good to let others to know. this reflexive defensive crap is par for the course i suppose.

And in the U.S.

> A few months earlier in the same airport, a tech engineer returning from a business trip to London objected when a federal agent asked him to type his password into his laptop computer. "This laptop doesn't belong to me," he remembers protesting. "It belongs to my company." Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself.

https://boingboing.net/2008/02/07/tsa-confiscating-lap.html

Except in Israel the threat is real, and the security guards are actually competent

so competent that they steal a developer's laptop, apparently!

They confiscated a laptop for some reason that the OP didn't report (and perhaps didn't know)

> There is something in this story that is missing. You may not know what it is

Completely agree here. Millions pass through TLV every year and don't have their laptops confiscated, something twigged their interest.

The question is why he was able to carry on flying

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