Nothing to see here, peaked my interest since “who would pay for a compiler??” In the modern age of open source.
Post has a missleading title, and is just rambles about ruby and compilers.
Post has a missleading title, and is just rambles about ruby and compilers.
Since I mostly do scripting work, I usually stick to Python, Bash, & Powershell though.
Some commercial compilers are very affordable with extremely sane licenses. One that has interested me lately is called 8th and is $250 for a professional license which lasts forever and can create encrypted binary executables on Linux, Mac, Windows, raspberry pi, iPhone, android, or embedded all with a cross-compiler, builtin graphics, sound, database support, full REPL, good support...etc. There is also a free version that just has some features missing (not a dumb temporary trial) and a $50 hobby license with many of the features. The Enterprise license would be expensive for me, but fairly cheap for most companies and includes priority support and the source code, so that is neat. I'm all for open-source, but if we're honest, some commercial tools are great and don't abuse users. It is not an only option situation.
I will say closed source can really stink too. I once had to use a product that all of the vendor's customers had to use, but it wasn't officially supported (although it was critical for infrastructure) and I was running into a bug they couldn't figure out or didn't care to look into. The terminal would tell me the problem was in line x of the encrypted script, but wouldn't let me know what line x did so I could get the app working.
Link, please? Did not find a page about the makers of 8th, though I googled and saw some other related pages I'm reading.
Most of my coding needs fall into either general scripting (Python, Powershell, Bash, Perl...etc) or numerical work (Python + Numpy or Julia). 8th seems to be pretty speedy, but Forths in general usually aren't lightning fast due to their stack usage and emphasis and you need really fast code for numeric work. He has made it a priority to work on performance though and continuously adds scientific features like adjacency graphs, so he is on the right track and I'll keep my eyes on it. For general scripting work and utility apps it should work pretty nicely for my needs and distributing a tiny .exe to users with a GUI is nice. I'm not sure how good the file I/O & filesystem support is though (need to look at the doc), because I use those common features a lot. I also need to check if he wrote functions (called words in Forth speech) for web scraping as there is a project I'd like to do where 8th would be ideal.
If you've never seen Forth before, try to keep an open mind with the syntax as it can look alien at first. There are a lot of 8th examples on Rosetta Code and although they are short, it might look like gobblygook if you're not used to thinking about the stack where parameters are popped off and used in functions which then return data to the stack so functions can be chained (kind of like Unix pipes). Leo Brodie's books on Forth (classics and free online) are called "Learning Forth" and "Thinking Forth" and are recommended on HN sometimes.
I did try out Forth a little, much earlier, and had read some of the Starting Forth book - had bought the hardcover edition, it looked really good, including the cover - dark brown, either was leather or had a leather effect (more likely the latter). And I liked Leo's writing. Will check out 8th at some time. The cross-platform GUI thing with tiny EXE's is a pro (Rebol and Red are similar, except not sure if Rebol supported EXEs, except maybe via 3rd-party tools), although not having good I/O and filesystem support is a con, since a lot of the stuff I do involves file I/O.
Still, it may be worth trying 8th out.
Rebol was mostly built by one person (Carl Sassenrath) but has to package the entire interpreter (I think maybe 5 MB) to make an .exe if you have the paid version. Red can already make executables and has made fantastic progress, but it is a larger effort. I check up on Red once a month and think 1.0 will be amazing.
Yes, I had read up about him after learning that he was involved with creating both Amiga OS and then Rebol. Amazing skills. IIRC, I read in some interview of him, that he said he read everything he could lay his hands on, about operating systems, before working on the Amiga OS. Maybe did the same for languages, before working on Rebol.
>but has to package the entire interpreter (I think maybe 5 MB) to make an .exe if you have the paid version.
Interesting. I had not tried the paid version of Rebol, only the free one, and that too, only for a bit, as a hobby. But did like it a lot even then.
>Red can already make executables
Yes, I had tried that, and the executables are really small too, just like the Red interpreter/compiler (in one file!) and the Rebol interpreter.
>I check up on Red once a month and think 1.0 will be amazing.
Likely so. I only hope they do not get off the tracks with their coin-funding stuff, I felt somewhat bad about that, would have preferred if they had gotten funding by more traditional means, but that is just my thoughts.
>maybe 5 MB
Just did a DIR and checked on my PC, the sizes of Rebol Core and Rebol View (bytes):
303,104 rebol-core-278-3-1.exe
864,256 rebol-view-278-3-1.exeI agree, the philosophies are similar. Minimalism, relying more on your own code than libraries, not generalizing your code for a lot of cases that might not happen, etc.
One thing that puzzles me about Forth, though:
I did read a few books about it (much earlier, and I'm not a language designer, so what I say next could be wrong). Some of them talked a bit about Forth's internal design. I understood from that, that when multiple words (Forth subroutines) are defined, they are "threaded", from which I understood that they are added to a linked list of word definitions. Wondered why it needed to be a linked list. If it was a lookup table of some kind, like a Python dict or a Ruby hash (basically an associative array), looking up word definitions to run them would be faster than in a linked list, which is linear, I'd think.
Edit: I did just have an idea of what the reason for that may be, but will wait a bit to see if anyone replies with their explanation. Hint about my idea: it may have to do with Charles Moore's Forth philosophy - just a guess on my part.
Someone on here or on the Forth subreddit should be able to answer though.
> "Programs that manipulate other programs are powerful, interesting and fun. I’ll use Ruby to take you on a tour of how interpreters and compilers work, introduce the ideas behind a technique called partial evaluation, and explain a surprising computer science result which allows compilers to be generated automatically."