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Comment by blackbrokkoli | Hacker News Reader

Title correction: Why are glasses so expensive in the US? The American eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry.

Please stop using the US as the "that's how it is"-standard.

In Germany, you pay a very reasonable (from my layman perspective) price for the lenses, maybe about 40$ plus another 30$ if you want to have non-reflective glasses or product from big name producers and stuff like that. Like every fashion product, frames start at a few bucks up to whatever you want to pay. Measurements, bending the frame are included in the service. None of this involves health insurance, as far as I know.

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The original article too long for you to get through? ;-)

The company that basically owns the entire eyewear industry top-to-bottom is Italian. Just merged with a French company.

I know it's popular on HN to talk about how crappy the US is, but in this case you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Serious question: how can one "own" the whole industry? What stops me from opening my own eye glass store and sell my own made-at-the-back of the store glasses ??

Nothing, there are even a few startups that do that. Warby Parker for example. Plus there are cheap glasses available OTR at walmart/costco. This is mainly referring to the luxury market.

They own the distribution channels, top to bottom[1]. Lenscrafters, sunglass hut, target optical, etc. If you don't play ball, they'll kill your distro. They did this to oakley in a hostile takeover[2] – luxottica cut them off and took almost 40% off their stock price. Oakley was then bought by lux.

What's stopping you from selling mom and pop? Mostly nothing. Warby Parker – and to a lesser degree, coastal – are doing this. But it's a weird middle-market place to live. Similar to things like Daniel Wellington in the watch game – you're selling $5 chinese products for $100 because you have a marketing and brand engine that fashionable but unlearned people don't question. In reality, the same products can be had for far less. EyeBuyDirect is the best place for cheap glasses. First pairs are often free but for shipping, about $7, and later pairs are about #30.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxottica [2]https://www.thestreet.com/story/1509351/1/oakley-suffers-as-...

EyeBuyDirect is owned by Essilor. Coastal is owned by Clearly, which is owned by Essilor.

So Luxottica strikes again, and continues to build their monopoly. Even when you think you're voting with your wallet, they still profit.

They also own the 2nd largest insurance providers for eyeglasses, EyeMed. Your customers will likely pay extra to buy from you.

> The company that basically owns the entire eyewear industry top-to-bottom is Italian.

That is in the US (and maybe Europe). In India I got my glasses with all the regular filters from Titan for about 50$ including the frame.

Titan is a brand owned by the Indian conglomerate Tata. Not by Luxottica. So your example is still US-centric.

It might be an Italian/French company but that doesn’t mean they apply the same business tactics everywhere.

In the Netherlands, an eye measurement, a decent pair of glasses and a pair of sunglasses (both non reflective) will cost you ~ €250,- and that seems reasonable to me.

70$ for glasses in Germany? I have to pay about 200€ per glas. Maybe weaker glasses are cheap. After all you can buy glasses in the supermarket for a few bucks.

Those modern glasses get scratches after just a few years of careful handling and cleaning only with „Mikrofaser“ in my experience. No fun having weak eyes in Germany.

You might consider an ultrasonic glasses cleaner. They are pretty cheap (around €50), and clean without touch.

Thanks, I’ll check that out. But otoh it’s another thing you’d have to carry around.

I‘ll also try buying glasses online as suggested elsewhere. I do that with contact lenses already (dailies for when I’m on stage).

I've had good luck with eyebuydirect, and have heard some good things about Zenni too.

I'm sure you can get good glasses for around €120 in Germany. €60 at the cheap end.

I carry lenses made from mineral glass so I can wipe them with any cloth I've got handy. They are not more expensive and scratch significantly less. The lenses are heavier and shatter quicker though.

I had an eye exam today, and I need new lenses. The exam is vouchered on the NHS. I'm keeping the existing frames. The lenses will have an anti-reflective and anti-glare coating. I've never had a scratch, that I can see anyway. Total cost: £39.

I've recently got 1.67 thickness, de-glared, blue-filtered lenses for 149€ total, including the frame, and my diopter is -7. I think you may be paying too much.

It's a US newspaper. Do you also ask the German media to specify Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel in every headline?

Knowing Germany they probably do tbh or at least it wouldn't surprise me if they did

If you've written out the full name of a prime minister you've already uniquely determined which country you are talking about.

Angela Merkel is Germany's Chancellor, not Prime Minister.

Fixed, thanks.

They're very reasonable in Japan too. If you visit Japan, bring your eyeglass prescription. There are lots of stores in Tokyo that grind their own glass that are not owned by Luxottica. This is how I got the best (and cheapest) pair of glasses I've ever owned.

Postscript: My Japanese friends tell me they get their glasses from South Korea, because they're even better.

On a vacation, or online and shipped to them?

At some stores you don't even need your prescription. I recently purchased my best (and cheapest) pair while visiting Japan and an eye exam was part of the transaction - at no extra cost! As an American I was shocked at how seamless and quick I was able to walk out with a new pair of glasses

I've done the same. Did the eye test in English with really big writing on the cue cards :). 40 minutes later my glasses are ready. Real contrast to Australia where you make an appointment for an eye test for a day or two later. The test is paid for by the government (Medicare AUD$56.80) and then select your frames (AUD$150 and up) and then come back a week later. I suppose the delay justifies the cost or vice-versa.

Same here in Taiwan. Some stores like Jins and Owndays are everywhere nowadays.

Same here. I just moved from France to Tokyo last year and I bought a new pair (same characteristics).

France: 380 EUR, including cheapest frame (80 EUR), regular lenses and ophthalmologist (80 EUR). (I had no health insurance.)

Japan: 10800 JPY including pretty good quality frame (5000 JPY) best lenses from the store and no ophthalmologist.

In France, it is not uncommon to have a 500-1000 EUR pair on your nose. Not because people are wealthy, but because they have the health insurance which pays. The first question a glasses store clerk asks is: "Do you have your health insurance card, please? We're gonna check how much we can spend".

Was about to post this. Budget brand eyewear stores like JINS and Zoff are everywhere, and they provide glasses at around $50-100, eye exam included. I've bought several glasses from JINS over the past decade or so and had no problems with any of them.

I wonder if the San Francisco JINS store is priced the same, or they try to make themselves look like a premium brand like how Uniqlo does?

Well it's a US site that talks mostly about US companies, US tech industry, and other US things. Talking about other countries is more of an exception to the rule than the standard (when discussing things where a country might come up). The article itself is a US newspaper with a largely US readership.

Yeah, it's pretty weird. Test and basic glasses are free or near-free for most people in Ireland (if you've got a job it's covered under PRSI, if you don't it'll be covered by the medical card). If you're covered by neither (ie fully private), ~60 euro. I'm not sure what's stopping US vendors from just importing glasses from Europe...

I'm not sure what's stopping US vendors from just importing glasses from Europe...

They do. Mine are from Germany, but still cost $700, large part because of my prescription.

They do import them... and then mark them up a huge amount. Unless you go to a few discount places like Costco or online vendors.

How much do the insurers get charged?

Because people can go long periods of time between exams/pairs as adults, it's possible they keep their cash prices low to convince the uninsured to step in the door.

Private optical insurance _exists_, but basically only as a corporate perk that pays for more expensive frames, etc. Most people wouldn't have it, and it didn't exist at all until a few years ago. Private health insurance is more common, but doesn't pay for glasses or routine eye tests.

I believe PRSI (the government social insurance scheme) pays about 30 euro for a basic eye test. At the big local chain, people without either PRSI or medical card (this would mostly be non-resident foreigners, plus maybe some early retirees etc), pay 30 euro, plus about 60 euro for basic frames with basic lenses.

Canada is sadly also in the same boat as the US in terms of eye glass cost, so while the article is definitely American slanted it does effect more than just those folks.

As consumers, Canadians are not in the same boat at all, but in a tiny life boat which broke away from that boat.

I'd love to agree with that, but I think you're underestimating the impact the FDA and other US regulators have in Canada. It is possible that Canada will reorient to serve the asian/european market more, but right now most trade ends up going south of the border.

True, the kind of US centrism is quite boring, and kinds of gives the impression of Americans as insular.

In India one could get a fancy, top of line pair of glasses for around 50$.

I had to pay €150 for lenses in Finland. And this was at Specsavers, the "cheap" place. Frames were only €30 though. Maybe you have a very simple prescription.

I believe in The Netherlands glasses are also very expensive (unless prices have changed in the last 5 years or so, which I very much doubt). Usually my glasses and frames had costs a total of around ~400 EUR in The Netherlands.

Recently I bought new glasses in Thailand and there (to my surprise) they weren't much differently prices compared to The Netherlands, which didn't make sense to me, because that would make glasses too expensive for most people here (it's about a monthly wage upcountry). Or perhaps the government provides citizens through health insurance over here, I am not sure.

In NL you have a couple of good and affordable options now, such as Ace & Tate and Charlie Temple where you'll get glasses for under €100. Lots of movement in the market the last couple of years.

Got mine in South Africa (albeit with blue light filters) for roughly the same price. Possibly an almost universal thing for normal optometrists (ie not start ups).

You could probably order glasses from Zenni and have them shipped internationally. Even if you had to go through a reshipper, it should be a fraction of what you're paying.

I've used Glasses Direct (based in the UK, but ship across Europe) before and I really liked the lenses. They seem to last longer than the ones I get from high street costs (maybe because they are polycarbonate?). My only complaint is the selection of frames they do are a bit on the small side for me.

IMHO, the prices vary extremely but if you want to get just a basic pair of glasses, you can get away with a very cheap. I don't wear glasses myself, but last August I accompanied someone to get a pair of new glasses from Fielmann (Wikipedia: 'Fielmann is market leader in Germany and Europe's largest optician').

In the end, one glasses cost 18€ (special deal) and the other one about 57€ (sunglasses, special frame). Given the 2+ hours, we stayed at that shop (sales talk + eye testing + frame adjustments) it was probably a net loss for the company on that day. I know other people who got their glasses for about 700€ from the same shop (more expensive frame + more features (e.g. thinner lenses)).

So it might be that the market situation is kinda bad and is getting abused. Nevertheless, I have the anecdotal evidence that if you are just after a vision correction (and not some fashion accessory), you don't have to pay a fortune (in Germany). This might be helpful to keep in mind when you are after your next glasses.

> In Germany, you pay a very reasonable (from my layman perspective) price for the lenses, maybe about 40$ plus another 30$ if you want to have non-reflective glasses or product from big name producers and stuff like that.

Uhm. Maybe this depends on the glasses you need? I'd not even come close to paying that little and my parents are paying even more.

Which German company are you using for your glasses? My wifes' glasses cost 750€ about 12 months ago. Nothing special in her prescriptions, except perhaps that she needed prisms.

The German glasses shop also have a bad habit of keeping the perscriptions after they have tested your eyes and not giving you a copy. Very frustrating!

Em just tell them to make a copy and don't give the original to them? Its your property.

Does that include the high-index material? Anti-scratch coating? Frames that don't look pathetic? Progressive lenses? Those are the things that really bring up the costs in the US.

At Topology Eyewear, we DON'T charge extra for super-high index (1.74) lenses, and all lenses come equipped with the best anti-reflective AND superhydrophobic coating. Because one shouldn't be forced to cut corners to deliver the best and most comfortable vision possible. Happy to answer any questions. Check it out at http://www.topologyeyewear.com

How do you customize nose fit? Sounds interesting but I don't know how a picture would be enough to determine the nose contour?

we build a 3D model of your entire face, including your nose. We then 5-axis CNC the shape of your nose into the frame, creating completely custom nosepads. We also use the unique location of each of your ears to craft unique left and right temples arms, each with custom length and drop angles to match the asymmetric location of each ear (everyone has a bit of asymmetry in their face). We also customize the temple arm angles based on the base curve (front curvature) of your ultimate Rx lens, so it all fits together as a system and will never stretch out over time. It fits perfect out-of-the-box, with no adjustments required.

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refrain from voting; flagging; and publishing bolstering comments from sock puppet accounts to support a marketing agenda. This does no good for HN or the container.

review the HN guidelines.

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No it does not. I bought high-index glasses (I am 5 diopter myopic + 1 diopter of astigmatism and I chose the highest index they had, 1.6 or 1.7) and a classic frame (round) and paid a bit less than 500 Euro. This was 2 years ago in Bavaria.

E: it has all the coatings too

In the UK it’s expensive to buy glasses from the high street, but you can order them from one of several ‘online’ shops for cheap. I’ve bought several pairs of metal, rimless glasses for 30 quid a pair and they’ve been excellent. They would have been around £250 from the high street.

Do you think perhaps you could link to a site you have good experience with? I would love to get some backup pairs but I worry about the cost

I've used https://www.glassesdirect.co.uk/ . The prescription was wrong, so they gave me a massive headache, but an optician measured the glasses and said they were made exactly to the incorrect prescription.

(The second optician was helpful, so I bought glasses from her. I'll use Glasses Direct for sunglasses and so on.)

My dad has had a good experience with Glasses Direct in the UK. They are not the cheapest online store, but they have been around for a long time. They also offer a home trial for some of their glasses (if you are in the UK)

https://www.glassesdirect.co.uk/

As others have commented yes Glasses Direct are who I’ve used. They let you choose some frames to have sent to you to try on in a selection box. I did this the first time.

They require you to send your prescription (a photo is fine) before they make them, which makes me think they are being required to do that legally, or at least concerned they don’t want to get it wrong.

So this doesn’t turn into an advert for one company, I did notice that lots of other companies seem to offer a very similar service and they all seem to offer various guarantees regarding your happiness with the product, presumably because people are still wary of this way to buy glasses.

Another reason I’m slightly evangelistic about using these ‘online’ glasses services is that the high street opticians are obviously overpriced and I don’t think it’s right to make so much money unnecessarily from people who just want/need to see well - some of whom really struggle to afford the costs.

My problem with that is that my frames needed adjustment few times after I bought them(they felt fine in the shop, but after few days they felt a bit too tight). The retail shop I got them from corrected them for me for free, but had I bought them from an online store I don't know what I would have done.

I echo your view. Here in Taiwan we have wide selection albeit non-branded frame plus prescription lens from about 20USD. I personally went with ic Berlin + Zeiss lens which was a lot more expensive. Still no where near the article’s USD800 example.

It's affordable for most of us to spend 20 bucks to buy a pair of glasses,but some glasses brand such as Baodao（formosa-optical）, it sells glasses too expensive,maybe we have to pay a few hundred dollars for a pair in mainland China.

Unfortunately, its rather similar in Australia. Got a recent quote for a pair of glasses to be at $1000.

I feel like something has changed in Australia. I've worn glasses a long time and remember them always costing a few hundred dollars per pair. A few months ago I went into Specsavers and was able to buy glasses for under $50 per pair.

My prescription hasn't changed but the prices definitely have.

Really depends, you can easily spend hundreds on glasses if it's not something standard.

What? It's an LA newspaper.

In Belgium it largely depends. I paid about 120 for my current glassed, but due to having bad eyesight (worse than -8.0) I almost don't pay for them at all! Socialism at work.

>>Please stop using the US as the "that's how it is"-standard.

The US is the standard for the overwhelming majority of things that are commonly discussed day-to-day on this site. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with this, other than having had their pride scratched.

Russia set the standard in interfering in the US elections and therefore the world...

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