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Comment by joe_the_user | Hacker News Reader

I switched to Linux about ten years. I basically got tired of having an OS I paid for (in buying a computer) not really be "mine". Lately, I have had few problems installing and running Linux on the various cheap laptops I've bought.

Ubuntu with a Mate GUI "just works", has all the software I need and lacks BS like the Windows 10 interface.

I don't really think there's any objective barrier to using Linux for a significant percentage of people - people who don't need Adobe Creative Suite or similar monopolies. But this is the same population who probably won't both doing something unusual given they have no strong motivation.

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> Lately, I have had few problems installing and running Linux on the various cheap laptops I've bought.

For the last year and change, I've carried a particularly fast thumb drive with Linux Mint installed on it (it's actual mint, rather than an installer/preview image). I'm constantly surprised by how many machines it "just works" with. Laptops from many different brands, workstations and desktops, AMD, Intel, Nvidia... Everything I plug it into seems to work fine.

With that in mind, I want to echo the sentiments in other comments. I'm still using Windows, but only because of the software.

At home I run windows only because of the software I use (Photoshop/Lightroom, games, and Equalizer APO).

At work I still need to use Windows simply because the toolchains I use are often exclusive to windows (Visual Studio and Atmel Studio in particular).

For most of my "clients" I now install Ubuntu or mint when their windows installation eventually becomes beyond repair (usually through no fault of their own), or they think they need a new one. I tell them I can easily put it back to how it was if they don't like it... but they couldn't be happier. 9 so far.

All they want to do is browse the web, and not have to fight with their computer at random points. I do pity these people who spend a lot of money on their computers for it to not even be fit for purpose.. and spend more money on Norton snake oil, which only makes it worse.

I believe this is why smartphones and tablets took off so well, they just work.

For these people, Chromebooks would be best, I think... But I wouldn't dare suggest them with Googles track record of decommissioned services and devices.

The issue with Chromebooks is that you have to be fine with all your data being in Google's hands. Not for everyone.

> has all the software I need

That's really the key to it all. Frankly, Windows, macOS, and just about any Linux are all good enough and have been for a while now. For most people, it all comes down to what software they want to run.

The big reason people run windows at home is gaming.

Valve for linux very much exists, but definitely not everything is ported.

i run win steam with wine and the games work surprisingly well most of the time

Steam for Linux now runs some games under their own Wine btw there's a good number of them they support now.

Yes, for anyine who wants to do further research it's called Proton. Valve has tried several times in the past to make gaming on Linux more attractive, but this has by far been their most successful attempt.

A lot of games don't even start on my Antergos setup. I refuse to run ubuntu, because I don't like it (mostly package naming, and a lot of the time I feel like it's poorly configured at least when I was starting out). I personally have had a negative experience whenever I use a Debian derivative.

I was able to install Steam on openSUSE if you don't mind openSUSE, it's a good alternative option.

This is true for me... Windows for gaming.

There are a few other things I need it for (like FPGA/circuit tools, home theater programming, etc.) but those can be easily handled by a VM.

That said, I am thinking of switching back from Mac to Windows for a daily driver, or to Linux, because these new MBPs are so bad. I need another keyboard replacement and I do not want to be without my computer for a week. This time double keypresses instead of none. What a joke, and the TouchBar makes VI hard (and no, after 31 years of VI I am not switching to caps lock).

> Ubuntu with a Mate GUI "just works", has all the software I need and lacks BS like the Windows interface.

How do you figure? Every part about Ubuntu, from keybindings to menus to window management to user interface expectations, are directly copying windows.

has all the software I need and lacks BS like the Windows interface.

Darn, pardon me. I should have said the Windows 10 interface. Yeah, Mate is copying Windows 7/Vista task bar stuff, with perhaps less of that system's unneeded flash.

So it copies the user interface of windows, with all its problems, but it doesn’t carry over the reliable variable DPI support, a notifications framework, a unified reliable software management interface, and consensus on how to provide basic utilities like secret management, file associations, and accessibility controls for the visually impaired. That is, the features of windows ACTUALLY worth copying. Linux is still mostly a bad XP clone.

Linux is usable for daily tasks, but only barely, and it gets further behind state of the art software every year. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone who isn’t fluent with critical debugging skills (bash, knowlege of logs and how to search them, the ability to manipulate system tasks, x11 and graphcis driver configurations, etc etc).

Until the FOSS community decides to unify behind a single experience and actually invest in the experience, it’s always going to be a shitty clone of the user interfaces people actually want to use.

I use linux every day but the idea it is usable for the average person without paying someone to support them through issues is an utter pipe dream.

>Linux is usable for daily tasks, but only barely, and it gets further behind state of the art software every year. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone who isn’t fluent with critical debugging skills (bash, knowlege of logs and how to search them, the ability to manipulate system tasks, x11 and graphcis driver configurations, etc etc).

Would you say the same for Chromebooks? Chromebooks are Linux. If not that proves that it's at least possible for a user-friendly experience to exist on Linux. And I would further suggest that running Ubuntu on well-supported hardware closely approximates the Chromebook experience for most users. I personally know several ordinary users who find Ubuntu as easy as Windows to use, if not easier.

I think your statement that Linux gets "further behind state of the art" as time goes on is probably the oddest claim you make here. It runs counter to everything I've heard from anyone running Linux for a long period of time. Most reasonable hardware configurations just work right out of the box. Remember that the average user never installs an operating system. Either the OS comes with the computer or someone competent is doing the installation for them; in any case the end user isn't expected to fix any problems that arise. Whenever I've installed Windows I've encountered driver problems that had to be fixed to get a working experience, but that's not something I count against Windows when talking about the end-user experience.

i think hes a troll

"State of the Art" desktop GUI essentially provide next to no benefit for the end user. Most people use their GUI only to launch their browsers but those who launch multiple application, search for and move around file and similar stuff can use any GUI from the last twenty years quite easily for the purpose - Windows 101 idiocy or Gnome Shell or whatever Kiosk interface might be faster to learn but a person only has to learn to use a given GUI shell once in their life but then they have to surfer it's inefficiencies, it's advertisements and updating every day or every inconvenient period. Of course, few users take action to stop time-wasting interfaces for the same reason few users learn to touchtype.

i am in the habit of providing linux installs on new machine builds,and all my customers love linux, extolling the fact that everything they need and want is right there when they want it, no sudden updates in the middle of use and no extra price tag for libre office or gimp.

> Until the FOSS community decides to unify behind a single experience [...]

People always say this whenever Linux is under discussion. No one actually wants this. If you want "one-size fits all" use MacOS or Windows and see how that fits you.

Precisely. The Linux community was/is a movement of people who do not want one size fits all. People who do not want a dictated experience.

People who trumpet a unified Linux experience expect the river to somehow flow backwards.

>No one actually wants this. If you want "one-size fits all" use MacOS or Windows and see how that fits you

looks at user counts for each OS

reads parent comment again

You pay for Windows, but Linux is free. Windows is filled with ads; Linux has none. Windows is slow; Linux is less slow. Windows tried to pull some weird tablet hybrid nonsense; Linux desktops are just desktops. Cinnamon, Mate and KDE took the very best parts of old Windows and made them better. Gnome and Pantheon ripped off macOS and they're also great. Every single one of them is more polished and more useable than Windows 10.

But seriously, who in their right mind would tolerate advertisements in software that they paid good money for?

i hear you 5 by 5, i would also wonder who would tolerate subsription like leasing of software such as norton or office 360.

Some one who has deals with top 5 orgs on Earth gives zero shits about the software or who made it, as long as it gets the job done. Actually, they might care, in a sort of "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" sort of way, but if you're on deadline and there are jobs on the line, people paying rent, you really can't afford to worry about whether Office costs you $100/year every year for the rest of your life.

I have never seen an ad in windows in my entire life on any of my machines. Apparently it is the first thing I disable when I open up the settings on a new install. It's gotten to the point that I'm almost curious about it. Ubuntu has the amazon integration which bothers me about just as much.

Ubuntu tried to pull some weird netbook phone hybrid that didn't work well on any type of device. 8 years we had to live with Unity.

I'd say that the UI of Windows 10 is about ten years ahead of anything in the linux world (and I doubt linux well ever be as polished). I say that as someone who is possibly going to do the switch to linux this year, but I'm in for a rough transition.

> I'd say that the UI of Windows 10 is about ten years ahead of anything in the linux world

Windows 10 is really really nice these days...

emulating is the less perjorative term, and this is done to provide a familiar environment to the unwashed masses that are not keen on the CLI terminal interface.

You get downvoted because you are very wrong, Ubuntu used GNOME or Unity, this desktops were very different then Windows, they had a top bar or side bar, they had 3D compositing before Windows released Vista, menus were not invented by Microsoft, MS did not invented the clipboard, keyboard shortcuts, I don't think they invented the "window" either so what is your point exactly? that Linux DEs should be forced to use things different then Windows

Well, mate is not the default Ubuntu Desktop. Honestly, I never got used to the Ubuntu desktop (What is it now? Unity?) but I always stayed with KDE and Kubuntu.

Recently I am unhappy about the stability and also about the RAM requirements of KDE since I only have 8GB Ram. I am pretty sure my next installed Linux system will be Bodhi Linux on my Laptop.

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