Apple resumes selling iPhone SE at lower $249 price on its clearance store
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I also happen to think small screens feel more elegant. The promise of technology has always been to amplify humans without detracting from the important parts of life. Big screen phones feel ideologically wrong to me in that people use them as a replacement for life.
I'm going to try out the new Digital Wellbeing stuff in Android Pie, which lets me set restrictions on app use. But it feels like a smaller phone is a much better solution, as it doesn't have any compromise in terms of portability - what's the point of having a big screen if I'm just going to disable the things that it's good at?
It would be nice if Apple or Google or anyone else could commit to serving the small phone market.
I kind of care about the design. It's elegant-- I like the flat camera, the chamfered edges and the brick-y form (which I appreciate they brought back with the new iPad Pro).
What I care most about though is the headphone jack. This is why I still keep mine around in spite of having another phone-- to listen to music.
EDIT: The fact that it's cheaper, so I could get more memory for the same price as a bigger model also contributes to it still sticking around primarily for music, but also with some games.
It's like when they started making laptop screen reflective. All my non-tech relatives were saying: "wow that screen is super nice" while I was thinking: "holy crap, the matte screen is disappearing, how I am going to work?"
However, in a situation where you have ambient light from everywhere, like an open office with many windows, glossy screens are insanely distracting. I much prefer the matte screens for that. Yes things on the screen can be harder to read, but way better compared to the "looking into a mirror" effect of a glossy screen.
they want the inexpensive option to not really fill a specific niche, they want it to be a little uncomfortable, that you're already making compromises so you'll pay a grand for the fancy one instead.
What i'm trying to say is, making a smaller option would be cheaper. That would cannibalize high end sales. From the seller's point of view, you want the best alternative to compromise all of your desires, so it's not that big of a deal to just upgrade. something inherently small violates that.
HNers can identify the tradeoffs. Apple probably understands the tradeoffs better though. Apple exploits them. (I say this as a loyal iphone owner.)
Recently got a 14” Zenbook for my daughter. Lovely machine honestly, but the screen ratio is annoying.
Having a large screen is also good for watching Netflix and YouTube. For many people, the phone has almost completely replaced the TV. I guess that explains why the screens keep getting bigger.
My luggable laptop for real work away from home or in equipment rooms has a 2010 4:3 matt screen
My portable laptop for quick emails while moving and occasional corporate stuff is a 13" gloss screen mac, but when it comes to productive work give me a good OS on a good laptop any day.
It is not "elegant" by any stretch of the imagination, but it is extremely small. Like you, I want something that is very small in my pocket and not distracting me from real life.
another case in point: parent only wants to change to smaller phone if all other specs are also improved.
I don’t think Xperia matters much here is it is sacrificing iOS and also to a lesser degree, an Android manufacturer that isn’t known for great software on that end.
But afaik it is the only phone out there with same specs as it's bigger brother. The phone is excellent too. I have the big one personally buy my hands are considerably larger than hers.
Of course I'm not convinced Sony's learned anything from putting rootkits on their music CDs either.
I'm hoping to get the Sharp Aquos R2 compact announced back in November; but it doesn't seem to have hit the market yet. Probably will during MWC 2019?
Also google took too long to come out wit Duo, so all the old people in my family learned how to use FaceTime, so now we all just stick with Apple products because it’s not worth switching to another environment, especially since Apple stuff changed much less and causes much less frustration.
I do still prefer Android as an OS, though I am still getting used to iOS's quirks. I'm very happy with my purchase, though.
I have had one of the above for about a year. Battery life is not too great, but for my needs (occasional phone call, text, google maps) it works fine. Fits in the front coin pocket of my jeans.
There's definitely a potential market for smaller phones, but someone's gotta figure out how to market them.
I do use the phone itself for audiobooks and podcasts, but otherwise its basically a server (not the best term for that.. but you get what I mean.)
What I don't get about the larger phones is how people comfortably carry them around. Maybe its because I wear skinny jeans / pants, but there's absolutely no way I could fit a larger phone in the pockets of my pants, and I rarely have a jacket on.
But the love of the SE form-factor is not isolated to HN. I know a lot of people who love a smaller phone for various reasons.
As the tech gets thinner, I'm longing for the day when we get something similar to the folding phone from HER, but with a few modifications (e.g. memory LCD / eink for other side..)
Aside from a cellphone, I also carry a kindle all the time. I literally wear special pants so I can carry my kindle without a bag.
I mean, they aren't custom made or anything, but I do limit myself to baggy pants with giant cargo pockets. I keep saying I'm going to take all my electronics to a tailor and ask for less ridiculous pants that can carry all my stuff, but I haven't.
(that said, if apple released a new phone with new screen and network quality that was the size of the SE, I would buy it, just 'cause it's a lot easier to use with just one hand, and when I want to use both hands, I have bigger devices.)
Perhaps those people were serious, and now feel like they've been left out in the cold.
I find it somewhat fascinating that Apple has chosen to reproduce the mistakes of the Mac (in the late eighties/early nineties -> higher prices/margins at the expense of market shares) rather the success of the iPod (own all the market, with an iPod at every price point). I don't think it's a winning strategy in the long term, though it has worked so far.
My wife wants a phone that can fit into her jean pockets. Requiring handbags just to carry a phone around is absurd, and untenable for many people.
My theory is that big phones dominate because a lot of people don't have reliable/maintained computers other than their cellphone. If that was true of me, I'd want the biggest cellphone I could get, too.
Personally, I think if this is true, and phone companies figure it out, you'll see phones begin to be priced like turn-of-the-millennium laptops. The giant and clunky "desktop replacement" units should be giant and priced at the bottom of the market. The small units should have all the premium features and be way more expensive.
The fact that there are very few small smartphones being made and that none of those are 'premium' smartphones would indicate that either I am wrong or there's a market opportunity that the major cellphone manufacturers are missing.
I haven't read anything convincing on the subject.
https://opto.ca/health-library/the-20-20-20-rule
2018 thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16146106
The only consolation is that maybe I can better understand and relate to generation Z than my peers. Not much of a consolation.
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I spend ~6-7 hours each day on my phone. On weekends, this use increases. I am now averse even to work flows that are better suited for laptop use. I will use my too-big-to-use-with-one-hand phone for tasks that would take half the time on my laptop.
I also have a compact and dSLR, but the best camera is the camera you have and that’s often my phone. I have a lot of pics of my kids that were unfortunately taken on an iPhone 4 or similar era touch and are noticeably terrible.
I had a 6+ for a while and got on with it fine but it’s a bit big. My 6s is just right. It is a little big for reaching on screen controls sometimes, but I’d hate to lose the readability so it’s a trade off.
There's a difference between having a mobile device with you in the city and using a device comfortable at home where most people prefer a bigger screen.
Well only in the context of US, EU, Canada, AUS, and the like. Or if you consider China, India to be a poor 3rd world country.
There are more people using their Smartphone as their only computer devices in China / SEA than the whole of US and EU population combined. There are elderly who never had a computer in their life are now using Smartphone as their first "computer". You will be surprised how many people can't double click a mouse, and moving mouse cursor around is a daunting task. And how using iPhone is 10x more intuitive.
If I posted "I loved it every time my phone screen got bigger" every time this discussion comes up, it won't add much to the discussion. Now imagine ten times of the complaint-comments are of this type, that's just spam.
I wonder how many of us, if asked, would say that we spend too much time on our phones? Probably higher than the population at large. A bigger screen is nicer to look at, I readily grant. But that's exactly the problem.
However I'd be surprised if that trend applies to the HN crowd, which probably considers their phones as a secondary device, at best. An extension of the multiple other computers they use more frequently, something you need on the go, a mobile device that's used for quick glances and short uses, which gets relegated to second or third device at home. At least that's how I see it and it is why I value a small, portable form factor. Plus, I have small hands.
I'd like a foldable or furlable phone that offers the best of both worlds. You'd use it folded or furled most of the time and unfold or unfurl it when you want a bigger screen.
The current foldable phones seem to be a bit too thick when folded, but I've never seen one in person so that may be a false impression.
I miss having tough phones that lasted for days. All the current tough phones have really really crap specs and run Android that's multiple versions behind, and Apple hardware these days needs to be treated like a newborn baby.
I recently upgraded my 7 to an 8 because my 7 was too easy to damage - even with a rather rugged case (a simple drop shattered the screen). I'm really uninterested in things like camera upgrades (male, early 30s). After this phone, this will be the first time I seriously entertain a non-Apple product for my computing hardware.
At the usual Apple price point, a military grade phone is what I should expect.
(Of course it would be nice if a next-gen SE had IP67+ water/dust resistance and a larger battery, then all you'd need is to add a highly ruggedized case and you'd be golden.)
I got it off the kickstarter, but I think you can buy it retail now.
If it had nicer specs (e.g. hardware on par with iPhone 8 and a better display) that would a bonus. However, I wouldn't want a high-res display necessarily. I think they should keep the pixel density of the current SE. What I would found after briefly using an SE is that the low-res display coupled with the CPU/GPU from the 6S resulted in amazing UI performance -- much better than the 6S and maybe even the 7. Getting rid of the bezels would be nice, though that might detract from one of the advantages of the SE, that you can firmly grip the phone while being able to touch any part of the screen with your thumb, but it would be worth the trade-off I think.
I spent a week with an SE, after having used the 6 and the 6S before doing so, and I found I quickly adjusted to the smaller screen, and could even type faster since there was less finger travel needed (relying heavily on auto-correct).
Battery life on the SE is also great (at least it was for me), and I'd like to see that replicated on a newer small phone, with whatever tradeoff is necessary to accomplish it (e.g. low-res display, thicker phone).
I’ve speculated this is perhaps more practical on newer laptops (e.g. 2016- MacBooks) where ports have consolidated to just all usb-c and presumably stay that way for longer than a typical 3-year physical design cycle.
Look at the constituent parts of an iPhone SE:
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cDmVFvtAKTZvjOBk.h...
An upgrade necessarily includes a new logic board and likely a new camera module. Once you're disassembling it, you'd inevitably be swap out the battery too. Most of the remaining parts have a distinctly limited service life—in particular the battery, physical buttons and connectors.
The front glass assembly with LCD screen might have a long theoretical life but these do deteriorate over time, they get damaged easily and replaced fairly often.
After excluding the above, there's not much left to salvage—mostly aluminium parts like the outer casing, and aluminium is already one of the most recyclable components of a phone anyway.
So there's really no point.
iPhone X/XS/XR (bought & returned one of those in Sept.) are just too big i can not one hand text, surf, etc with any of those form factors or bigger.
I hope their future models offer iPhone 6/7/8 or smaller form factors with Touch ID!
Also, bring back the audio jack ... buying $180 airpods is ridiculous as previously i could buy $10 wired headset and listen privately. Removing the audio jack seems all to me about raking in cash(selling airpods) vs. providing customers with the best UX(making me buy crazy expensive airpods is not a good user/customer experience!).
The swipe gestures aren’t discoverable at all. But I noticed my 60-year-old aunt fluently using them, so I think the little tutorial they do in the Apple store when you buy one is effective.
Steve Jobs said : “Any product that needs a manual to work is broken.” Does a full blown hand-held tutorial form an Apple employee at the store count as a manual?
On the quote, a CNBC article seemed to attribute it to Jobs, but I suppose Musk said it - I stand corrected
You know you do have other choices when it comes to headphones besides AirPods? Including the lightning headphones that come with it, any BT headphones, or a $10 adapter that came with the phone until last year.
Not sure, a lot of HNers have placed a ton of orders in the past few hours
Ergonomically speaking, 4 inches is the right size for a device that is meant to be operated by a human hand. Phones bigger that that are grossly oversized and anti-ergonomic.
That’s just common sense (cit. Apple): https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE
[1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xda.onehan...
[2]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.niftyui.re...
I think that's the nail in the coffin for me; the screens are just too damn big.
> Phones bigger that that are grossly oversized and anti-ergonomic.
Looks like he is, actually.
You can find small phones but they have terrible cameras, sub HD resolutions, and bargain basement SOCs.
Is the demand for a premium (or even mid range) small phone really that low?
If there was a large untapped market for smaller phones, then the limited number of small phones on the market would be selling a lot better than they actually are. Somebody would notice and start making more of them.
Like phones with physical keyboards, phones with small screens have become a niche product and they will probably disappear in the next few years.
Even so, people who like small phones would complain that the screen is too big to use one-handed when the thing is unfolded.
There is going to be a market for people who want a phone that is not $500 American dollars, and it is wise of Apple to cater too it.
I'm part of that minority and small phones seem better in so many ways. My hands are relatively big I think, but even with "small" phones now I can barely use them with one hand. The smaller screen uses less battery. Larger phones don't fit in pockets very well and result in a spot that wears through on my jeans where the corner of the phone pokes out from my pocket.
I'm really struggling to think of advantages to larger phones. I guess if you always carry around a purse/bag then the size doesn't matter as much, and if you had smaller hands then maybe one-handed use is just impossible regardless of the size. But what's the use case? It's not like a real computer where a larger screen means you can multitask better, since you can barely multitask anyway.
Also people are spending a larger amount of their time on their phones watching video. A larger screen is an improved experience for watching video.
Given such heavy use, it makes sense to use the biggest practical screen. There's a reason why books aren't the size of an index card. Screen sizes in the west have historically lagged behind middle-income markets, where smartphones leapfrogged laptops as the primary computing device for most users. Indian and Chinese customers were demanding 6" 'phablets' at a time when most manufacturers were ambivalent about breaking the 5" barrier. A 6" device is roughly the upper limit for average female hands and average trouser pockets, making it a natural point of convergence.
An iPhone SE has a screen area of 44.1cm². A phone with a 6" 16:9 display has a screen area of 99.2cm². That's still tiny compared to a paperback book (~195.8cm²), but it's pretty much the sweet spot.
https://hackernoon.com/how-much-time-do-people-spend-on-thei...
I'm pretty happy with the size of my phone currently, not sure it qualifies as small or large. Largest phone I had was for work, Iphone 6+, that thing was unwieldy, essentially a tablet. I wouldn't own one that big personally.
Vertx Legacy are my favorite. The thigh pocket has an inner magazine pocket that holds a phone perfectly. Or a backup battery. If you carry two phones, it keeps them from clunking into each other.
I just upgraded to the XS Max and it lasts far longer than my 5S, 6S, and 7 before it. It's even in Apple's support docs, the bigger phones have better battery life.
> I'm really struggling to think of advantages to larger phones
For me, it's all about reading. Most weekends I'm taking my kid to events that don't require my full attention. As I started using my phone for reading more, I found I was getting frustrated with the cramped space, constantly scrolling.
So this year I went all out and got the XS Max, and I gotta say: I couldn't be happier. Less scrolling, I make far fewer typing mistakes with the bigger phone, I'm not scrambling to charge my phone at 5pm.
Sure, I had to give up typing one-handed as my thumb cannot reach the opposite side of the keyboard. That's fine.
What are you basing that on?
If I market a new device that’s larger and give it better specs how can the smaller device survive? Its only feature is its size but its specs are always behind and getting further behind. The consumers will drift from it as the spec disparity increases.
From a business standpoint it seems bigger is better, but it’s the better display/storage/battery/camera that’s driving the consumer not the size.
They have a monopoly on the operating system, which is what people really want with both the iPhone and the Mac.
People will still spend $3000 on a 15" MacBook Pro that they hate (because of the ridiculous touchbar) because it's the only high spec'd laptop available with macOS.
There's no way for consumers to tell Apple "we prefer no touchbar" purely with sales data because they aren't given the choice.
I think that same factor is huge with the iPhone. I have bought multiple 4.7" iPhones now, all of which I hate because of the size, but it is the smallest (correction: smallest premium) phone Apple makes/made. So looking at the data, it looks like I love the new iPhone size because I bought it, but the reality is I had no choice if I wanted to keep using iOS and didn't want to deal with a horrible experience performance-wise from aging hardware.
They're largely relegated to Walmart's "I need a cheap burner phone" prepaid phone department.
If it had better battery life I would not want anything else. But I do not play games / read or browse on my phone. I just want GPS/maps text and calls.
I disagree with this point. I think other manufactures simply realized it's cheaper to not include a keyboard, and since no one else is anyway, easy enough to get away with it.
Really?
Here in Japan, there are a lot of ladies with small hands, not particularly vocal on HN, and they seem to find small phones more comfortable to hold.
North-America, Europe and Japan are over-saturated. Markets that are still growing drive the demand for bigger phones, it's really as simple as that.
Japan - small does generally play very well here - think back to how small some of the Toshiba Libretto notebooks were.
A high-quality, small phone; easy to hold; easy to store in a small designer bag - once the novelty factor of a bigger phone has worn off - it's hard to understand why that's such a niche play.
Only Apple, Google, Samsung etc. have authoritative data. But from Apple's point of view, cancelling the iPhone SE would have simplified their supply chain, which would have been an easy sell to Tim Cook as he's an operations guy.
That doesn't mean that we'll never see another small phone from Apple again.
As a person with bigger hands I always wonder is the demand for larger mice is really that low?
Go to Logitech and tell me which hand sizes suit which. Can I get larger or smaller size of the particular model I want?
I remember reading years ago some mechanic getting humongous mice from a novelty/joke shop...
Do you have any evidence for that?
There are virtually no, modern, reasonably-specced and reasonably priced phones with smaller screens available currently, so it's no wonder they're not selling.
In the Android world, there's only a couple of low-end Nokia phones (Nokia 1 - 4.5" screen and Nokia 3 - 5.2" screen), low-end Samsungs like the Galaxy J3 and the high-end and expensive Sony XZ2 Compact available but these phones aren't available for sale in many shops or on many contracts. If the market doesn't produce modern smaller phones, then they can't be sold, so arguing that "the demand really is that low" is currently a circular argument.
I suspect that part of the reason why the resale value of older iPhones like the 6 and 6s are high is that a reasonable percentage of people, esp. women, want smaller phones like these iPhones which are still reasonably fast and quite usable. My girlfriend hates using large phones as she finds them too big to hold in one hand easily, and has kept using an old Android because of its 4.5" screen.
I'm a tall person - well over 6 foot - with largish hands and even I find it difficult to comfortably use a phone wider than 70mm. I also find the current trend of producing 18:9 ratio phones completely baffling, as it makes reaching the top of the screen impossible with one hand in situations like traveling on trains or buses. Widescreen videos are filmed in 16:9 ratio, so it would make much more sense to go back to 16:9 ratio phone screens.
They don't exist because phone companies know that the demand is too low to justify the investment.
If you want to convince people that the demand is there, you'll need to explain why every phone manufacturer has come to the opposite conclusion. Not a single one is making small high end phones. Is every manufacturer blind to market demand and/or stupid?
This is not quite true - Sony still is producing the high-end XZ2 Compact with the Snapdragon 845 and 4GB RAM - https://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-xz2-com...
Sony is the only manufacturer I'm aware of that is still producing smallish phones. It is rumoured to be replacing this phone with the XZ4 Compact, but Sony is not particularly good at marketing or distributing its phones.
> Is every manufacturer blind to market demand and/or stupid?
Quite possibly. Mobile phone manufacturers seem to slavishly copy each other and copy Apple especially, as can be seen with the recent stupid copying of the removal of headphone jacks and the use of notches in many phones after Apple made these changes in its iPhones. Was the market demanding these changes? I doubt it. Were these changes necessary? No.
If everyone wants phones with larger screens, why are so many consumers holding off on upgrading their iPhone? Apple recently blamed its battery upgrade program for a $9 billion loss in revenue, but its very possible that a reasonable percentage of the users of these older iPhones simply don't the larger-screened and more expensive iPhones currently on offer.
> you'll need to explain why every phone manufacturer has come to the opposite conclusion
I suspect that manufacturers are making phones with larger screens as many consumers in what were faster-growing smartphone markets such as China and India preferred phones with larger screens so they could have a single 'smart' device, rather than buy a phone and a tablet as many consumers in developed economy markets did.
I suspect also that the lack of diversity amongst smartphone product managers and engineering staff is also having an important influence on these changes. Men are physically larger than women on average, and are over-represented in the staff of smartphone manufacturing companies. More women, older and disabled people in their staff would likely help to produce devices that suit the needs of a wider range of people, and not just young men with high levels of physical dexterity, good eyesight and higher than average interest in 'working out' how to use overly complicated smartphone interfaces.
I hope that mobile phone manufacturers can regain their ability to segment the market and produce a wider range of devices and form factors like they did until a couple of years ago. Innovation in the smartphone space has slowed dramatically, and it's no wonder that smartphone sales have also slowed.
The only problem with it was how hard it was to find anywhere. Agree with the comment that Sony is bad at promoting or offering their phones.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-se-review-retro...
If you go with the small phone concept then your life might not revolve around your 'hand rectangle'. You also might have bought your phone ages ago and be in no hurry to upgrade.
A lot of the older folk are okay with the relatively basic phones they bought five years ago. So long as the camera is good enough for messages to close family members and the phone works for voice calls then there is no problem. These phones did have smaller screens and, for this demographic, there is no perceived point in upgrading to the expensive, fragile giant hand rectangle. Consequently they are not a vocal crowd. All slowness is them fumbling around or connection speed, the latest and greatest CPU is not important and the screen is adequate for their eyesight.
I run a basic small screen phone myself and I am toying with spending the £3.29 to get the cracked screen replaced. I could get a better phone but I would be looking at something equally small and underpowered as what I currently own, something that wouldn't even be considered a phone by most people here. 4.5" screen with plastic back and replaceable battery, with SD card slot. It will cost a tenth of the price of a premium hand-rectangle and I will probably own it for much longer than how long a premium phone is owned for.
So yes there is 'low demand' but lots of it. This demand is met by products that don't even appear on the radar of the HN crowd as 'viable'.
People say they 'just' want a 4" modern phone, but they define it as a phone with multiple cameras, high storage capacity, and fast processors, etc. etc.. It's a nontrivial engineering challenge to get everything into a smaller package, and this at a time where the market at large has picked bigger phones as the winner.
Also, don't forget that people generally expect something that's smaller to be cheaper. Reality is, it might actually cost more money to deliver a smaller product, and at that point you're swimming against people's assumptions, not a great place to be.
So, you sit down to design a small modern phone and BAM it's just nothing but obstacles in every direction. It doesn't surprise me that the conclusion manufacturers are making is that the only winning move is not to play.
I'm not saying it's the _right_ decision necessarily, maybe someone will make an excellent small phone in the near future and the whole world will flock to it. But nothing has pushed the industry in that direction yet.
I don't know. My Nexus 4 was fine with respect to all of these things when it came out. Not top of the line power, of course, but not shabby either. Surely our ability to get faster processors into the same package has significantly increased since then. If I could get the exact form factor of a Nexus 4 with any hardware improvements available since it came out over 6 years ago, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat.
My Nexus 4 also had pretty big battery issues, and that was despite having no LTE support.
"We stuck with Compact for a very long time, because of the ease of use. There’s always room for different sizes, but people want a lot more surface area for their content now."
That doesn't sound like a definite statement to me. A more appropriate headline would be "Future of Sony Compact series in question" or something along those lines. That just wouldn't sound as exciting though.
I think it's just harder to make a small phone very good and premium, and keep the price low.
Concerning the Sony, I personally got the Sony X3 Compact, I was quite disappointed with the Camera. All the Sony smartphones boast great cameras, but when you use it, the UX is bad. Shutter speed is slow, interface is bad. Also like you said, it's not that small. The Google Pixel 3 is only 0.07 inch wider, I think it's a much better choice (camera much better, stock android etc...)
I want a small one handed device that has the latest specs and TouchID, and a headphone jack.
Secondly, Armament Systems and Procedures? Active Server Pages?
Based on that, I'd say that they stopped making the SE simply because only a very small, specific slice of the market actually wants to purchase such a device, and it's not worth keeping a unique product in their portfolio if the sales numbers just aren't there.
Website metrics are mostly meaningless in a conversation about people who want a phone, but not a primary internet device.
Secondly, I think Apple wants to drop the home button on all devices. The next SE will be edge-to-edge screen. This March will mark 3 years since the last release.
If it doesn't show up in March, maybe it will appear in September with the other phones.
But if it doesn't appear this year, then:
- they had production problems with the fancy screen
- OR they decided to drop the SE altogether
It's a 2016 model, so it should remain supported until at least 2021. Not far off, but still better than some (many?) Android phones.
I'm not sure how $299/128GB compares to Android products, but it's cheaper than its previous $449 price.
I'd pick one up myself, except that I have a 5 that keeps on chugging along.
Keeps your system firewalled and your apps sandboxed and there's less of a need for constant OS patches.
But it's notable that even 'privacy first' Apple doesn't ship a firewall because that would interfere with the market for ad-supported apps.
I believe you could theoretically install one on iOS using the VPN functionality available... a quick google only finds “guardian mobile firewall” which is still in beta though.
When Lenovo came out with that throwback laptop the HN thread was full of curmudgeons nitpicking every little detail they thought was wrong about the retro laptop they always said they wanted Lenovo to make. The same thing would happen if somebody made a new small premium phone. Such people are impossible to please and there isn’t much point trying.
Combine that with the price ($1900 MSRP) and you have a device that comes off as a cynical, overpriced money-grab directed at the retro aesthetic crowd, especially considering that it's basically a slight upgrade of the T470.
It wasn't a bad machine. In fact, it got above-average reviews. Still, something really burns about being so close to perfection and making unforced errors that keep them under the line.
People wanted something that wasn't just retro, but a true classic in other respects as well.
If the main ask is that the phone be small, the phone being over an inch larger than specification hardly seems unreasonable to complain about.
Anyways, I looked it up - they were also carrier locked to walmart mobile, a mvno in which the price of the phone is subsidized.
Not correct at all and why do you have to make a fake new account to post your false troll?
WalMart for several years has been maintaining sufficient stock for advertised black friday items. They had sufficient stock for everyone that wanted one, and they also were selling it online as well on Black Friday with free shipping.
I bought FOUR and gave them to friends and family. I use mine as a camera, mp3 player, and portable web browser and have never paid an additional cent for it.
So, you're saying that the phone you bought you didn't use as a phone? Hmmm....
Also, this isn't a fake account. I don't think anything I've posted was intended to troll.
So yes, you can buy an android that isn't garbage. Some are, definitely, but with just a bit of research you'll find good phones.
I bought an Xperia X Compact in 2016 and I hope it will keep going for many years. The new Xperia Compact models are larger and heavier. Not really so compact anymore.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Global-Version-Huawei-Honor-...
i really want one, i wish i saw this sooner
edit: its still available in other colors, its not sold out yet,,
Hopefully that's a strong enough signal to be noticed at a meeting inside Apple.
I do think that unless there's someone actively looking for signals, they won't, but I do hope the lackluster sales on their newer models has them giving the market the SE targeted a second look.
According to [1], customers "may obtain service and parts from Apple or Apple service providers for 5 years after the product is no longer manufactured" -- not from when the model was first manufactured.
The 32/128 GB models were manufactured from 2017-2018, so these should be supported until 2023.
With AI assistants seemingly the 'next big thing', which lends itself to a more horizontal model, will Apple change gears to accommodate? Their services division has been growing rapidly.
Apple could leverage it's brand to create an awesome cell phone at a very cheap price. Not a lot of low income people are buying the the XR, my sister has had to replace her iPhone for at least six months but as a college student she's not going to spend a grand on a phone. Maybe it's time for Apple to dial down the luxury brand pricing and make a phone for the common man?
Are 'AI Assistants' the 'next big thing' in the same way that 'chatbots' where the 'next big thing' in 2015?
To me, it just seems that the market is mostly propped up by Medium articles and vendors trying to force the next big thing to make payday.
Why do people act as if the only choice for Apple products is the highest priced option? This is about how people are composing that they have to buy AirPods now that there is no headphone jack.
Apple sells the iPhone 7 for $475.
A couple years ago they called large phones "phablets." We've lost that word now.
The correct term is tablone <grin>.
I loved my SE until I bricked it jumping in our local pool not feeling it was still in my pocket — one of the downsides not yet mentioned. I brought my previous Nexus 6 out of retirement since there aren't any phones, Android or iPhone, that is worth new pricing right now.
Plus, I demand a 3.5mm headphone jack — dropping that was the most annoying design choice I can remember in a long time, in any consumer device.
Grrr.
For something to listen to music, order a car, view maps, communicate or browse a web page it’s really perfect. Fits in a pocket and can be used with one hand.
So, the iPhone 5 appeals to people who want a small, durable, fully featured smart phone, with a normal headphone jack. The iPhone 6 and up all have bigger screens, but 6 is the last version with a headphone jack, and it is definitely less computationally powerful and measurably slower than everything after it.
The specs are sadly dated but I’m still running an iPhone 7 and the SE isn’t that far behind hardware-wise. For my use cases (some productivity software, maps, music, and chat) I have zero need for newer hardware any time soon. I have a full fledged computer if I really need something fast. And the 128GB option is only $50 more which isn’t bad.
Also, I like the audio jack. I do miss that on my 7 (and, consequently, newer devices).
Finally, there may be size wise comparable android phones but I’m not in that ecosystem. I’ve tried (using a couple Nexus devices for a year each in the past). There are too many things I like better in iOS or apps that didn’t have a direct port and whose equivalent wasn’t really equal.
Been very happy with it for about 2 years.
To Steve Jobs, it was absolutely essential that all of the core functions of the iPhone could be performed with one hand. That requirement dictated large parts of the iPhone's design and the UX principles of iOS. One-handed operation formed a key part of the marketing of the iPhone 5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99m7lebirE
The one-handed phone represents the phone as a means to an end rather than an end itself. You make a quick call to your partner while holding the baby, you check your shopping list while pushing a grocery cart, you send a text while holding a beer. The one-handed phone does a job, then gets out of your way. It's never the total focus of your attention.
Bigger phones are obviously better for intensive use. If you sit an iPhone SE and an iPhone X side-by-side, the iPhone 5 seems comically tiny. It's lousy for web browsing, it's lousy for reading e-books, it's lousy for watching movies. It seems like a relic from a different age. That's because it is - it's a relic from an age when a smartphone was a smart phone, rather than a pocket computer. Rightly or wrongly, there's no turning back from here.
The next logical steps up for screen-size feel like 8 inches for a small tablet and about 12-13 for a full tablet or small laptop, and are both too big for mobiles; I feel like having an input mode that allows one-handed use would serve most of the market that does want a smaller device. The hold outs would prefer the smaller device for a combination of fit inside of other things and weight.
I'm reminded of Star Trek and the way technology is depicted on the show. Most episodes are about people (human or alien) and their relationships to one another. Technology is only a means to an end on Star Trek.
One episode stands out, however: The Game [1]. In this episode, nearly the entire Enterprise comes under the thrall of an addictive video game. The ship would've been lost if not for the efforts of an intrepid pair of youngsters. It's an interesting inversion of the usual trope that the older generation is the one warning against the dangers of a new form of entertainment.
But I digress. I brought up Star Trek because I think the show makes a very important point: humans matter, technology is just a tool. When technology starts to matter too much, humans suffer.
I know a simple upvote would suffice but just wanted to tell you that, on my iPhone SE, of course :)
When I first saw the iPhone 6 the design struck me as lousy. It feels great in the hand and the hardware is top-notch, but it definitely felt like a phone they could build easily, while knowing you're most likely going to put a case on it-- quite utilitarian. On the other hand, after the iPhone 4 I had no idea how Apple would outdo its hardware design, but the iPhone 5 with its chamfered edges and unibody enclosure is, IMO one of if not the best Apple ever had. I'm happy that design was inherited in the SE.
In the sense of usability though, in spite of the utilitarian design new iPhones have lost both the headphone jack and TouchID! Moreover, they're too big to use with one hand. In that sense, the SE still feels more "useful", and it's why I keep mine around.
Even with an otter-box it still fits in a pocket and can take a beating.
Having used it now for 3 years, I've really enjoyed it. It's small, sure, but it works so well in one hand. It's also incredibly powerful. It's amazing just how many high end apps you can run without issue.
Right now, I'm not sure what I'll do next. I got annoyed with the iPhone X's direction and anticipated that I'd keep it until the battery dies at which point I'd replace battery and keep it until either the updates stop or the atoms give up. Now, I'm not sure. It's starting to show its age (slightly) even with the new battery. As much as I enjoy the form factor, I wanna look into the future. It would be great if they shoved XS specs (including cameras, OLED and 3D touch) into an SE-like body, but that isn't gonna happen.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance
i just ordered one, finally got the phone ive wanted!
I'm excited, once my iPhone 6 kicks the bucket, I'll have a great backup ready.
When I saw this post, I immediately ordered one.
Wish this market was bigger since apparently there’s not enough demand.
I hope this is a test of demand - I ordered one since my existing one is falling apart after some big drops but I didn’t want something bigger.
I tried an LG v30 and it always felt like I was about to drop it (though the audio sounds really nice!) I can’t find any phone besides the SE that I’d rather buy even without price as a factor.
[1]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FN8L2/Refurbished-iPhone-...
Given the hundreds of millions of iPhones Apple sells, there inevitably going to be some lemons.
Whole new ecosystem follows.
Apple was 5 years ahead of everyone while Jobs was around and now struggling to just stay relevant. I still like most of Apple products and use them daily but they should do better.
$ 299 / 128GB
Performance is perfectly fine. Keep in mind the latest iOS release is actually faster than the previous. Phones have gotten to the same point as modern computers where they don’t need to be continually upgraded.
One of iOS 12's advertised features was that it's significantly faster than 11 on older hardware. And that seems to be true.