There are structural problems that inhibit participation from underrepresented groups. The objective is to level the playing field so everyone has a fair chance at success.
disclaimer: i am a black engineer who is tired of wasting time arguing with people who harbor views such as yours.
A lot of people in engineering went down that path because they were inspired by someone when they were younger. If there were more women and minorities in engineering, then other (young) women and minorities would be able to see them as role models and follow suit.
Who? I started programming because computers are fun. If you really care about getting more women and minorities involved in tech volunteer at a local high school -- there are dozens of programs which seek to get young people exposed to programming. Anything else is just blowing smoke.
It shouldn't be a stretch of the mind that programming would be more accessible to someone who was raised knowing programmers, than to someone who was raised without.
> If you really care about getting more women and minorities involved in tech volunteer at a local high school
This is great advice. That doesn't discredit the impact that having diversity in tech has.
This is really interesting claim and perhaps somewhat biased. Some preliminary testing of VR teachers suggests that young women prefer to be taught by women, and boys have a preference for robots/drones.
My own personal experience is that mecha anime got me inspired to work in STEM, I can see why that might not have universal appeal, but the claim that people need role models who look like them isn't universal.
source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190108095108.h...
I know that my existence continues to influence my younger siblings, and the children of family-friends. I’m known as “the one who worked at google”. Without me as an example, tech wouldn’t be in the perceptual sphere of attainability within much of my family and community.
Obviously people in the lives of children impact them. Does seeing, possibly, a black engineer on TV count as being in the life of a child?
It was an uphill battle the entire way. Should we be looking to my life-path as a scalable way out of poverty?
> Obviously people in the lives of children impact them. Does seeing, possibly, a black engineer on TV count as being in the life of a child?
Yes, definitely. TV is realer than real-life for most people. It's the average person's lens into the world, for better or worse.
that would solve the problem
the company itself knows as well as or better than anyone upstream what its own jobs require. the company itself is in a good position to train/educate a person (of any particular group) to do that job.
upstream educational institutions can promote diversity and graduate people all day long -- but you still need a company to actually hire those people.
They're not. They are commenting how the criteria for hiring changed to include other attributes not related to skill.
If I hire people based on a mix of skill and how much they like baseball, I am inherently hiring on a different measuring stick. I could end up hiring someone with the most skill out of the hiring pool, but that doesn't matter - I'm not hiring based on skill, I'm hiring on some combination of skill and baseball.
It does not mean that the person who gets hired isn't the most skilled. But it also does not mean that the person who gets hired is the most skilled. I stopped caring about hiring the most skilled the moment I added a largely arbitrary hiring attribute into the requirements, how much they like baseball.
Generally I have a problem with this, but I think it's less of a problem than people make it out to be. Yes, we are not hiring based on skill alone.. but, we never were. We were hiring based on skill, attitude, work ethic, how they work with people, etc. A long laundry list of things we want a candidate to be, and difficult to figure out to boot. So yea, if we stop hiring whites because we've got too many, we may miss out on some skill - but when so many of the hiring requirements are vague, difficult to judge and largely a meta-game itself, we stopped caring about hiring skill long ago. Hell, even skill is difficult to judge.
Plus, eventually it'll even out. Suddenly we'll have to stop hiring minorities because there's too many in X company. Which is ironic heh. In the same way that males in some colleges are becoming a minority. Irony.
Only 20% from each group are qualified enough.
If you need to hire 5 people and want them to be from the minority group, you end up hiring 2 qualified engineers and 3 - not so much.
Congratulations, you've met your diversity quota.
Also, the condional probability of a minority engineer being underqualified is 3/5 now, but this number is declared racist.
All of a sudden we don't want to extend this same treatment to people who face structural problems that inhibit participation?
yes there is a difference between skills and talents of people
For some reason, the racial stereotype of white males being unqualified lazy freeloaders didn't really take root, apart from maybe a small group of vocal idiots.
It's at the preschool, primary school and university level.
Why are we somehow pretending 100% of responsibility rests on the employer?
If I'm going to set up a medical team, I don't want the best and most lauded 4 surgeons in the world, I want only 1 of those so I can also have the best anesthesist (sp?), the best physio, the best psychologist... you get the idea. (Edit not you in particular, of course... I mean everyone)
"Culture fit" has become an accepted "soft" value for which a technically superior candidate may be passed over; why this resistance to diversity as a soft value too? New points of view, new mental patterns, new sources of inspiration... that is better than the same pov repeated 4 times. Why does it need to be explained over and over? (we know why, whether we like it or not) It doesn't mean diversity takes precedence over other soft or hard skills and valuable aspects of a candidate, it just means it takes is place among them.
why does it matter so much that other people look just like you? why cant you look past other peoples skin color?
but nobody will admit it