De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard
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The kicker is that repair is no longer what I would consider "trivial", as to install a new keyboard yourself you have to gut the touchbar out of the old one because there's no way for users to pair a new one.
I also recently learned they killed Target Display Mode when they introduced the DCI P3 screens on both iMac and MBP. Perhaps the hardware to do so at that color depth wasn't available then and they couldn't justify doing it themselves, but it certainly is now. I doubt we'll see the feature return.
I miss when "Pro" meant actual professional level features
Edit: I should add I really don't mind typing on them, and can go just as fast as I can on my custom 60% with clears, the reliabilty is just ass for how much time I spend using it
Someone else has actually made a debouncing extension to avoid double-entry of keys with kind-of-sticky-but-not-yet-useless keys https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky
The only thing I use one for is at home in bed at 3am where f.lux Darkroom Mode on OSX is still unbeatable at what it does, and there's zero chance of liquid spills.
Apple's legendary quality just isn't there anymore, and the machines are so fragile to liquid damage and the repair experience went from awesome to utter shit over the last 5 or so years. I just can't justify it anymore. My next phone is a Librem 5, my next laptop a Librem 13. I love the OSX ecosystem but not enough to turn all my machines into hackintoshes.
I really didn't think it would only be a few years after Jobs died before Apple started whiffing. Now it's easy to see just how well he was able to keep the jackals away. Now the whole company is solely interested in making stupid amounts of money.
Such a shame.
The thing I'd say about Dell is that they're like Ikea in that they produce a wide variety of products at a wide variety of price points. High end Dells (XPS, Precision) IME have good to excellent quality. Lower end dells (inspiron) have mediocre quality as pretty good prices. If you're paying very little for a dell, don't expect it to last. If you're paying a lot for your Dell, it _will_ last. I'm still using a 10yo precision tower and everything about it is great.
13" dell xps w/ Ubuntu would be on the list of Dells that I would trust to be of high quality.
Anyway, I love my SB2, and my only regret is not being able to somehow know they were going to release it in Black a few months later. I await the SB3 and will buy it in Black if they offer it.
Another option for you might be Dell. The Dell XPS is a sweet looking laptop, I haven't had the pleasure yet though.
Is that a problem when carrying it around in comparison to a mac? Is it an annoyance?
- Zero problem with the fatness on my end. Looks kinda sexy tbh.
- The keyboard is really good about from the fn key which acts as a toggle (if you don't combo it with another key). Can never get quite used to that.
- The body paint can get scratched and worn down if you're reckless.
- The hinge itself works fine ~~~97% of the time. Occasionally gets stuck (can't detach) for unknown reason requiring a reboot or two, or some dirt gets in the way of the connectors and it thinks it got detached when you move it around.
- Battery life feels somewhat disappointing, but I haven't done rigorous tests. If you're planning to use the gpu, you better bring that charger.
- The gpu gets thermally throttled pretty easily.
- Performance at the 4k-ish resolution can be disappointing depending on the app (even the browser). This gets worse if you add an external monitor or if you don't run it above the "recommended" performance level. Unfortunately most devs (including MS) seem to optimize for 1920x1080.
- My SB seems to have problems with WMR even with the official adapter (display goes black occasionally).
- There's a driver (?) bug with the screen brightness sometimes being too low. I've filed a report on the feedback thing, but I'm not seeing or expecting any response. Love the screen (and the width\height ratio) otherwise.
Overall, it's a decent and interesting machine, but the edges can be rough.
I don't understand how people are having experiences with WSL that'd lead them to believe it's comparable with Macs. What's the secret sauce? Is one of the "distributions" better than another?
Do I have to hackintosh may way back in?
https://github.com/bavariancake/XPS9570-macOS
I still have my 2012 MBPr, but I’m really liking the keyboard on the XPS 15.
That said, I use this setup every day and mostly forget it’s not a Mac. I was quite frustrated by the new Touch Bar Macs issued by my work (unpleasant keyboard, no real F keys, USB C only, flimsy back case that has dents in it from regular commuting use somehow), so I didn’t see that as a viable upgrade path for me since I like to keep my computers for 5+ years.
That’s probably not very convincing, but for me it was the right choice. For what’s its worth, I intend to support the XPS 9570 as a Hackintosh platform until at least 2023.
Have you tried the third generation butterfly on the 2018 MBP and MBA?
I hate with a passion the first two attempts at the butterfly keyboard, but the third gen I actually enjoy using.
My MBA is only a few weeks old, and I’ve noticed the space bar feels different already on the right hand side. Not sure if it’s real or imagined yet, but based on past experience, I’m concerned it may very well be dodgy.
I really do want to think they’ve ironed these issues out, but I admit I wouldn’t be surprised to find myself at the Genius Bar a few times with this new one getting it replaced as well.
Tried a 2018 MBA at the apple store -- I didn't realized they changed the keyboard, but it's definitely better.
I don't hate the keyboard on my 2018 MBP but its.. not great. I just rarely use it; I typically have my computer plugged into external keyboard/monitor.
How's the trackpad?
How's sleep mode if you use it with Linux?
I'm still on the fence, but I ordered an iFixit battery replacement kit for the MBP. After almost 7 years (!), it still has everything I need except for the fact that it randomly shuts down when the battery is at 60%...
Sleep mode works great, there is a bios setting for Linux which by default is set to Windows 10, once you set it to linux deep sleep works just by closing the lid, and it resumes as expected.
I do use it with Linux, I have Ubuntu 18.04 running on it and it works great. usb-c charging it amazing, and it works great with my usb-c monitor ( lets me have a single cable to connect everything to the laptop and to charge the laptop ) Battery life is fantastic, the only thing I have to get used to is the CPU in it can burn a lot of battery if you are running it at full load for an extended period of time. When I am running lots of containers on kubernetes it can burn down the battery in a few hours.
I've installed Ubuntu 18 with 0 problems. Sleep works fine, haven't had any issues with wake up. You do need to install some custom software and change a BIOS setting for it to use 'Linux' sleep mode (or something like that). Battery life is 'pretty good', not exceptional like MBPs, but definitely in the 6hr range.
Overall I'd recommend a X1 Carbon, especially since you will spend nearly $1k less on the comparable specs.
Cost me 330 euros from eBay. Pretty good computer for development, but it only has 8gb of RAM.
Nevertheless the 2015 Carbon X1 runs Manjaro Linux with KDE very well, everything works out of the box.
More developers really should consider moving away from MacOS and "fashion" technology, and start recycling older systems. A web developer does not need the fastest most expensive device on the market. Especially not a $5000 MacBook with a bullshit touchbar.
I'm not interested in shelling out for a new personal laptop with these keyboards. :(
Similarly thinking, I have been trolling the Thinkpad Subreddit and constantly check the Lenovo Corporate Perks prices with a fully loaded P52 sitting in my cart. Can't pull the trigger. I'm too entrenched and spoiled by the Apple conveniences and ecosystem.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trawl
And the “search thoroughly” meaning for that is current, not archaic.
It took a while to get used to using it every day. Now I'm OK with it, except for the arrow keys.
My biggest problems are that there are no landmarks for your fingers. I swivel between two or three or four computers when I work, and coming back to the MBP, it's hard to re-center my hands without looking. On earlier MacBooks, I think my brain used the inverted T arrows, because my fingers seem to go there first.
I like the touch bar, but it needs more support, and more consistent support. Even from Apple, itself. Sometimes I can authenticate with a fingerprint. Sometimes not. Sometimes confirmations are on the touchbar. Sometimes not. It's an inconsistent experience.
All of these problems will become moot in a few weeks anyway, since I ordered a proper full-sized Apple Bluetooth keyboard, trackpad, and riser. I miss my F13-F19 keys more than I like the touchbar.
One day I've pressed it, and it did click, and then it popped out. By then Apple had free servicing action in effect, so I've went to local store and they replaced my top body with new one (also replacing battery, touchpad and speakers).
Touchbar is completely useless for me. If anything, it freaks me out because there's absolutely zero feedback to finger when I accidentally touch it.
But then they are outnumbered in my circles by people who've either deferred new MB Pro purchases, desperately hoping Apple will relent on the Touch Bar, or (like myself) have moved to other platforms & given up on Apple.
EDIT: That said I find the touchbar to be a gimmick and not something I really like using. It's not much of a downgrade as compared to function keys, however.
Aside from simply being defective at a high rate, it's also physically unpleasant, but that's more a matter of opinion.
There are the maintenance issues, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I did have a sticky key (after about a year), and did get it fixed with Apple's free maintenance (edit: so I'm now on the 2018 keyboard), but this feeling I've had from the beginning and still do occasionally.
This contrasts in my mind very starkly with my experience with my very first MacBook keyboard circa 2009. I'd never had a Mac before or any kind of laptop, but when I first used the keyboard I never had to think twice about it. This stuck in my memory because of how much people raved about that keyboard at the time; but I guess it's a property of a good thing that you only notice it when it's gone.
2016-2017s get the 2016-2017 keyboard- without the silicone sheet.
Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/15/third-gen-keyboard-excl...
Yeah I can't quite put my finger on it but it bugs me too. I still have the old one at home, new one at work. It feels wrong, and it's so loud you can't type in a meeting without everybody knowing you're typing. I've put off buying a new one for myself because of this, hoping Jony Ive read everyone involved with this project the riot act.
We've seen butterfly v1 and v1.5. I'm waiting to see what butterfly v2 looks like before I buy another one.
... I also hope that whichever people in the universe he accepts advice from have intimated to him in the strongest of possible terms that he should be paying attention to Apple's industrial design, and leave building design to architects (ex: walls you can't see really?)
I am unhappy about the increased sound, but can live with it.
But the regular problems with repeating keys is an insane regression in functionality. I have this problem with a different key almost every day (today it's my 'i' key), but most days one of the keys repeats itself every time I activate iti, such that—see, that "iti" was a perfect example (I corrected the others)—and the repeat happens usually after the following letter. Drives. me. crazy.
https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
It seems so very uncharacteristic for Apple to ship a product that you need to use in a clean room for it to work properly. I don't like to baby my products, they will develop dings and scratches over time.
FWIW, I also prefer a mechanical keyboard but that's not specific to my MacBooks. I prefer to them to any laptop keyboard or normal keyboard out there.
I haven't met you in person, but I will tell you that it's even worse. I have a supply of cans of compressed air at home to clean out my MacBook Pro's keyboard on a regular basis lest the keys get stuck. I have never had to do this with any of my previous Mac laptops over the past 17 years.
No need to produce a lot of waste by buying canned air. Unless you pressurise them yourself of course.
If I want Apple to replace the keyboard, I have to risk that they will destroy the SSD. Their best solution for me to is to buy another Macbook, clone the system, have them do the repair, then return the spare Macbook. Really frustrating.
I'm also a dev but I'm on the other side. I think it's ridiculous that devs continue to rely on function keys to do that kind of thing. Not only do you have to remember what the F9/F10/F11 keys do for each IDE but it's not consistent in any way between IDEs so you're kinda stuck. I much prefer the Touch Bar, especially where it's actually supported by the IDE, and, where it's not, I'm using Better Touch Tool to set it up exactly how I want it. Now I have dedicated buttons for each of those things that show up in context or that stay at all times, if I choose.
I'm actually with Apple on this one - I think it needs revision, but I actually have gotten used to the flat typing. It makes the other keyboards I've tried feel really, really mushy. I can actually type over 90WPM on this thing at typeracer.com.
Overall, I wish it was quieter and didn't have sticky keys, but otherwise, the shallowness is no problem for me.
Weirdly I have two 2016 MacBooks: a 13” base and a spec’ed up 15”. The keyboard on the 13” feels substantially more tactile.
I have heard countless people wishing to have the old keyboard back and absolutely loathe the new butterfly keyboard. And they refuse to even buy a new one.
I just recently sold a new MBP and got a 2nd hand MBP 2015 instead. As a matter of fact the 2nd hand price of MBP has been holding up better than expected all thanks to TouchBar MBP.
Re: touch bar, I suppose it really depends on what apps people use. Finder, Calendar.app, Mail.app, iTunes all work really nicely with the touchbar. It provides negative value to someone who isn't using an app that supports it unfortunately.
I don't get it. Compared to butterfly they are pretty bad.
Extremely long key travel is supposed to be save me from carpal tunnel. I find it quite exhausting. More worrying is the tactile feedback. When a butterfly (or any other chiclet keyboard) clicks, it registers.
Not so much on a mechanical, not even the tactile. It is worst on the linear gaming keyboards, where resting your fingers on the keys can cause them to register. Normal linear keyboards do need to sink deeper before registering, but again, there is absolutely no feedback.
The tactile keyboards have a "click" somewhere, but it is not connected to the actual keypress registraion.
On top of that they are ridiculously tall.
Like most people I prefer thinkpad or old mac keyboards over the butterfly keys, but they are pretty fine, and I would call them very tactile, but I guess that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. So maybe I just go with calling them very responsive, with a high correlation between the audible and felt click and key registration.
Mechanical keyboards might just be worse for RSI etc, because it's hard to rid yourself of the habit of pounding on the keys to bottom them out, which one has to do on a membrane keyboard. Most mechanical (certainly most Cherry) switches actuate before bottoming out, and through some mindfulness, it is possible to train yourself to type sedately, without bottoming out. But it's hard, and not possible to do all the time. The long keytravel is also a literal pain.
The only reason to have a mechanical keyboard is enjoying the key feel, and noise. Typing at the speed of light is way more enjoyable on a keyboard that clacks along happily as you type your tome. If a membrane keyboard does it for you, all the better. Save yourself $$$ on the expensive keyboards and (worse still) expensive keycaps.
Here are the variables:
Actuation Point (Where does the press register)
Linear vs Tactile vs (Tactile + Clicky)
Force (IE how much pressure to push down)
total travel distance.
(There are also some optical switches with adjustable actuation)
>The tactile keyboards have a "click" somewhere, but it is not connected to the actual keypress registraion.
MX Blue actuates at 2mm but clicks somewhere around 1.75mm, Razer's tactile switch on the other hand actuates right on the top of its click/bump. You can also find some that actuate before the click.
>On top of that they are ridiculously tall.
https://kono.store/products/hexgears-x-1-mechanical-keyboard
Basically just google low profile mechanical keyboard switches. mechanical keyboard travel distance goes from around 4mm down to 1.5~mm. And there are all kinds of thin ones.
>It is worst on the linear gaming keyboards, where resting your fingers on the keys can cause them to register.
Cherry MX Red: ~45cN force
Cherry MX Black: ~60cN force
Cherry MX Grey: ~80cN force
There are tons of problems with mechanical keyboards but your problems are not them.
1) The sounds appear to all be the same, regardless of key. Seems there should be some subtle variation in the sound, even if it just a very slight modulation in pitch? This would better map with real mechanical keyboards.
2) The sounds appear too far delayed to me. Like it's slightly out of sync w/ my typing. I turned off the keyup sound—which helps—but not enough. It may be this is a limitation you can't overcome.
3) The sound quality seems low. Maybe obtain higher quality samples and/or don't compress it so much?
I think some subtle variation (like, adding an effect randomly or having ~10 recordings) could make this even better.
Not a great quality clip, but here is the scene: https://youtu.be/Etu44hXY3zg?t=55
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-en...
If a conventional vehicle is coming around a corner you can hear it, anticipate its imminent arrival and act accordingly (especially important on country roads without a pedestrian sidewalk) whereas with an electric car the pedestrian receives no such audible warning. So yes, the engine noise is a consideration specifically for pedestrians.