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Comment by tjmc | Hacker News Reader

An easier alternative - I'm really surprised that out of work graduates from the US aren't getting Australian working holiday visas and flooding down here. Due to a resources boom (thanks China) unemployment is only 5% here. There are skills shortages in most technical areas and particularly mining. The Reserve Bank of Australia just raised interest rates again because it was worried about the economy overheating.

The working visa has some restrictions - you must be between 18 and 30. It's only valid for 12 months and you can only work for a maximum of 6 months for any one employer. The last provision is a bit tough, but there are still plenty of 6 month contracts around.

Why do Americans have such a strong reluctance to travel abroad for work? I've never understood it. It's a great opportunity to get some work experience, live a little and, particularly for the mid-west and east coasters, skip winter!

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>Why do Americans have such a strong reluctance to travel abroad for work?

To fully understand this you'd probably have to live in the US. We grow up constantly hearing things like "in America at least we know we're free" and many of us can't help but think "why do they keep repeating this? Is everyone else not?". We're constantly indoctrinated about being the best in the world, so no matter how bad things are here, they must be worse everywhere else right?

We have an enormous amount of people in the US who've never been outside of it and have a completely wrong picture of the rest of the world. It was shocking for me, for example, when I came over to Europe and saw places like Sweden and France. I saw what I knew as socialism, but it seemed to be working! And the more I looked the more it appeared to actually work better for the average person. It was so demonized back home, who could have imagined that it's actually just a trade off like everything else. Some previously good friends of mine now literally think I'm a communist (sadly I'm not even exaggerating).

I'm from the United States, and I never appreciated this country until I spent a year in Denmark! Socialism seems to be working for the most part, but I don't like the conformist attitude and culture it encourages.

Is that a conformist attitude or a "work together" attitude because it seems to me that the US system encourages an "every man for himself" attitude.

There are plenty of reasons why Americans don't like to travel abroad for work. I'm sure other posts will cover them.

However, I don't think many people know about this particular working visa. My sister lives in Australia and I hadn't heard of it until your post. I just looked it up and it looks like it started in 2007. Too bad I no longer fit the age requirements. I'll pass the info along to my younger brother, though. Good tip.

I think you will find the majority of the western world have a strong reluctance to travel abroad for work.

- Working abroad means leaving behind friends, family etc. To many people, this is a big deal

- A large majority of the working population have children. Moving abroad is not a simple process when you have a family and it then also means many people's support network (fellow parents, grandparents) disappears

Also I must say, there is a dearth of interesting companies to work for in software / technology outside of the USA (I'm sure someone will now provide me with a nice list and prove me wrong :). I'm in the UK and can only think of a handful of companies I would love to have a job at.

[I'm hoping to do something about this with all the job talk at HN recently and make discovering cool companies to work for easier]

I have no reluctance to travel abroad for work at all. There's tons of places elsewhere in the world I'd love to work. But when the jobs you want are in America (or at least in greater density or number than elsewhere) why would you leave America?

I'm not sure why you were voted down as I don't see anything wrong with your point. My brother lives in Mountain View, works in biotech and has long said that the scene in Australia just hasn't got the critical mass it has there.

But the number of available jobs is the issue here and I wasn't so much referring to established professionals as those who are just starting out and having a very tough time finding their first gig in the current US economy.

In Australia and NZ, the option to look abroad for work is on pretty much every graduate's list that I've met and I guess it's understandable due to our population sizes. I got my first development job in the UK and it was that critical "foot in the door" that I needed to get work when I came back home.

Are you sure that US citizens can get working holiday visas in Australia? I was under the impression that most common-wealth countries had such agreements (and for some odd reason Japan is included in there), but that was it. For example, a US citizen can't get a working holiday visa in Canada, but a Japanese, Australian, or UK citizen can.

Yep. Details from the Dept of Immigration: http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/462/usa/

You're right that it was previously just Commonwealth countries, but I think US citizens were included as part of the US-Australia free trade agreement signed a few years back.

Also, I can't see any tertiary education requirement on the site (just secondary), but apparently you need to show you have access to $5000 on arrival.

Note that the US-FTA immigration arrangements are reciprocal; in exchange we aussies get an exclusive entry to america for under the E-3 temporary work visa program: http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa.html

Yep, the Australian govt. will literally grab you by the arm and drag you over there if you show an interest.

The skills shortage is, apparently, acute.

When I finished my engineering degree and they had a jobs fair the Australian stand was huge - and the "package" of benefits (i.e. crazy tax breaks, free loan car etc.) was mad.

Apparently not all Australians know this either. I talked to a couple of placement firms in 2008 about the possibility of temp or perm work in Australia as a US citizen and was politely dismissed - "too difficult, no jobs, preference to locals", etc. I had 15 years of software development skills at that point - mostly webdev (php, perl, etc), but some other non-web software skills too.

Why do Americans have such a strong reluctance to travel abroad for work? I've never understood it.

Do Americans have a strong reluctance to travel abroad for work? I haven't noticed one way or the other. When I graduated in 2001, my 'reluctance' was based on broke-ness. The difficulty affording even a $75 fee (for a background check to work for the local school district) meant that the thought of leaving all my connections and going several thousand dollars into debt for overseas relocation didn't even cross my mind.

Do you have any idea how difficult it would be if you found a great employer while on the working visa, and wanted to make the move permanent?

Actually I think you'd have a pretty good chance of getting sponsored for a normal work visa in that situation. Unrestricted work visas here are awarded on a points system. Most IT positions are awarded maximum points and you get more for being under 30, healthy and speaking English.

you must be between 18 and 30

Why the restrictive cutoff at age 30?

I believe it's because younger people are cheaper to support (financially, physically) as a society than older people. More flexible, too.

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