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Comment by rukittenme | Hacker News Reader

So much of this shutdown fight is just ego. We've now lost more money due to the shutdown than would have been saved by depriving Trump his wall. Just give him the money and be done with it. Regardless of its effectiveness just pitch it as a federal jobs program... Just. End. It.

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That's the problem, the amount he's asking for will barely start a wall, a wall is a dumb idea any, and if you cave once where does it end?

If a wall is such a dumb ineffective idea why don’t Democrats just support it since it will continue to allow people to come in illegally?

I hesitate to get involved in any political discussion here, but I want to understand you.

You seem to be suggesting that it is the objective of Democrats to continue to allow people to enter the country illegally. Do you truly believe that?

The wall being ineffective is a good argument against it, but it isn't the only one. Even an ineffective wall will surely damage the relationship between the two countries it separates, for example.

Is there any data that shows walls between countries damage their relationships?

I do believe Democrats want people to enter illegally, instead of not at all. Based on things they say I see no reason why to think that’s not the case.

I think I understand you a little better now, thank you.

If you give a mouse a cookie, he’s going to ask for some milk

History has shown that appeasement is generally a totally ineffective way to deal with aggressors.

Compromise is not appeasement.

Compromise is an agreement reached by both sides making concessions. Which would those be on the other side?

First, we haven't. We have hit the point where the amount in the current budget request exceeds the economic damage. The estimated total cost of the wall would be somewhere between $15 billion and $70 billion, depending on who you ask[1].

Second, it still doesn't matter. Giving in to Trump on this matter would only show him that he can expand his racist policies again and again by threatening to shut down the government again. "Once you have paid him the Dane-geld you never get rid of the Dane."

[1] https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/apr/28...

How is building a barrier along the border a racist policy?

Context is important. For the Republican party, that means decades of using "border security" as a dog whistle for keeping out Mexican immigrants.

For Trump in particular, that means his speeches as candidate, "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." He is a fearmongerer, and this is just another step of playing along fears of immigrants.

This is what I would hope the democrats were capable of performing, a basic cost benefit analysis.

They have, and they realize that giving into him means he will do this again.

Not really, you can just pass a bill to prevent more shutdowns from happening?

And even if you don’t give Trump what he wants now do you really think that’s going to stop him from trying again? He has no reason to stop trying.

Do you truly believe that that they are not capable of performing a cost benefit analysis? Perhaps it's you who are not capable of seeing the true costs at play here?

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