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Comment by trotsky | Hacker News Reader

I see daring fireball has never heard of archos.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/31/archos-unleashes-five-fiv...

Let's see:

  I would love to buy a $229 Android device that’s the
  equivalent of the iPod Touch

Which one of the Archos is equivalent to iPod touch?

Well, I had the archos 10" tablet in mind when I made that post.

Archos clearly intends the 4.3" device to compete in the ipod touch space. The fact that it lacks a capacitive screen means it really doesn't, and seems like a mistake. But given Archos' price points ($200 4.3" resistive and $275 7" capacitive) it's hard to believe that component and manufacturing prices would prevent them from shipping a closer mimic.

http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_32it/index.html?cou...

Other Android devices in the iPod touch class are out there (e.g. Samsung http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/samsung-galaxy-player...).

Any "Android tablet" lacking Market access, as these do, might be competition for the iPod nano, or the Nook, but it's not in the same space as the iPod touch.

The claim of the article is that apple can price their mobile devices lower than the competition because they benefit from superior supply chains and manufacturing. The fact that google chooses to restrict the market application to OHA member devices with SIM cards doesn't change the fact that archos is delivering products in the same basic hardware class for less money.

You're accusing Gruber of ignoring certain competitive products which, by your own admission, aren't competitive products. The Nook is also in the "same basic hardware class for less money."

Should an article about laptop hardware component pricing only compare hardware costs of machines that come pre-installed with office? He doesn't seem to think so as he compares pc's and macs on average hardware costs but they can't all run osx.

A theory: Archos has obviously created prototypes to send to the press, but it doesn't look like they're pulling off mass manufacturing at the advertise prices just yet (except the Archos 5, which has a resistive screen). Could it be that the prices quoted are simply an over-ambitious projection?

The 70 has been shipping for a week. It also sold out on the first day. And it has a capacitive screen.

Interestingly enough, when I ordered mine, I got a $25 discount, for no particular reason I can discern. Brought the total cost to $256, delivered. We'll see how it measures up.

You can install the market easily; my understanding is there isn't the logic in the market (yet?) to handle a wider range of devices, (without 3g, gps, etc.). With android market advertised for google tv advertised for the spring, I'm wondering if they're prepping the market for a much wider range of devices...

The logics are all there. For each app, you are supposed to put the <uses> line to indicate which resources the app requires. The market will automatically filter out any applications if that resource is not available on the device.

I'm actually really curious about this device... did you order it straight off their site?

yes. Saw it on engadget when it was released, realized it fit what I was looking for, said what the hell, and bought it.

I'm quite taken with it, so far. Adding the app market is a snap, and makes it even better. I'll be quite happy when it updates to 2.2, though. I've gotten used to it on my nexus one, and it's a pain going back.

I would very much like to know how exactly they can be so cheap. Their 10" tablet will sell for $350 (16GB), the spec-wise very similar 16GB iPad costs $150 more. (The one downside is that you cannot buy it yet, it’s supposed to be out “this fall”.) Oh, and if Archos can do that, why not Samsung?

Well, not shipping and the resolution on the screen is worse (1024 x 600).

iPad also has IPS screen that should cost some.

It's difficult to know exactly which point in the article you take issue with. I didn't see anything that indicated Gruber is unaware of the Archos.

My take is that gp talks about equivalent to iPod touch, but I cannot really see how Archos are in this category. The smaller ones have resistive touchscreens with lousy resolution, the bigger ones are different form factor, pricier and no Android market :(

various quotes:

Now, even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices.

no one else can afford to match the iPad’s price with a comparably sized touchscreen display

iPods, iPhones, iPads. Across all of them, Apple’s prices are either comparable, or lower, than their competition.

Now, even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices.

The only Archos device that is shipping and comparable to an Apple product (the iPad) is this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/archos-70-internet-tablet...

This is not something that can be easily compared to the iPad. Yes it is cheaper, but the two devices aren't the same. The three biggest (and easily measured) differences are the screen size, screen resolution, and storage. I can't find a price for the Achos 10.1, but please feel free to link it if you have it.

no one else can afford to match the iPad’s price with a comparably sized touchscreen display

See above and below.

iPods, iPhones, iPads. Across all of them, Apple’s prices are either comparable, or lower, than their competition.

The other Archos devices available for sale are indeed cheaper, but also fail to have comparable specs to the Apple devices.

Engadget quoted $300 for the 10" but it seems to have come out a more expensive - The 8gb is on the shelves in singapore for S$499 which is about $390, and the 16gb for S$599. Other commenters should note that these devices are in retail (though they are just arriving).

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy an archos tablet - I'm sure not in the market for one. I just don't get how it doesn't contradict "even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices".

http://www.techgoondu.com/2010/11/09/hands-on-archos-70-and-...

It doesn't contradict "even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices" because competing on price means offering something that is essentially the same for a lower price. The iPad isn't comparable to either the Archos 7" or 10" tablets.

You're confusing competition with cloning. Look at the products the article lists as iPhone competitors - the galaxy, the desire, the incredible and the nexus one. It would seem like your standard for competition would discard them all.

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