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Comment by rconti | Hacker News Reader

I know everyone is recommending the book Why We Sleep, but I'll pile on and say that I found it to be a fantastic read, and the consequences of alcohol consumption are devastating. Stats like 40+% reduction in retained information from just a few drinks the night after learning new facts. Or the night BEFORE learning new facts. And how the ill consequences occur even if you abstain for several DAYS after learning new facts, then have several drinks 3 days later.

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That's interesting.. I wasn't aware this was studied. I stopped drinking years ago because I noticed that alcohol reduced the amount of code I could hold in my head, even up to a week later.

How much code do you hold in your head?

I don't think there's a good answer to this... it varies depending on the language, familiarity of the codebase, complexity, novelty/difficulty of the problem/solution, how repetitive the code is, etc. So I don't think comparisons can be made between people, even if they're looking at the same code base (since what is difficult for me, may be easy for you, and therefore easier for you to comprehend and remember... but if we look at another codebase, the opposite may be true.)

+/- 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus...)

Honest question -

Do most adults need to retain new information very often?(excluding the typical HN audience who are constantly learning/innovating/reading/etc)

Interesting question - continued learning is directly linked to statically better cognitive function and fewer brain disorders in elderly people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that learning as an adult is important for operating effectively in society. So, I guess that would mean that it's not really necessary to retain new information at a certain point in your life. As long as you can still access information that you've already obtained (which I believe alcohol exposure over a prolonged time can affect)

Honestly there’s stuff I’ve done when I was drunk that I would rather not remember.

I suppose this could extend to all kinds of things -- remembering to pay a bill, remembering appointments, peoples' names, project tasks, directions to new places, social obligations, where you parked your car, etc. But of course it's more relevant to things that need to be committed to long term memory, and I'm not familiar enough with how the brain works to opine on whether recurring things (bill payments) would be impacted.

I would posit that enough adults drink often enough that society is generally structured to allow people to function with whatever impairment occasional drinking creates, since that would be the baseline capability for the average person.

That doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from doing better than that, though.

And yet I don't see myself surrounded by highly successful ascets. Maybe the typical winners are those who by chance happen to be somewhat immune to the negatives than others while still cashing in on the positives (see ajcodez post)?

I do wonder occasionally who a parallel universe abstinent-me would be today. Would I have retained that deep focus excitability I had as a young teen? From a personal perspective it's difficult if not impossible to tell the effects of drinking years from the effects of years.

I think you're right that there probably is some variance among individuals in that some are more negatively impacted than others.

I think also "success" depends not only on individual performance, but also social connections. You can only get so far working on your own. At some point you need to be able to get along with other people, and alcohol does facilitate that to some extent.

What makes you think most people don't need to learn or innovate constantly and why is HN in particular an exception?

Another question - do you benefit more from social ties formed while drinking or preservation of memory and early mornings?

Understated. That’s the most important part of events that include alcohol: a good part of society is built around alcohol-as-a-socialisation-tool, and that may advance yout career and sentimental life, even though alcohol itself is counterproductive to this effect.

It's this kind of thing... Trying not to sound preachy, but it just doesn't make sense that people, especially people who work with their brain, drink alcohol 'because it's fun'. Sorry, but that is stupid. No better way to put it. You have an incredibly complex and sensitive instrument, and you choose to bang it around a bit because it causes a funny effect. What more can you really say. There are loads of ways to have fun in life, alcohol is not necessary. Sorry for the blunt truth.

In this thread you have the sole mention of Why We Sleep. what are you referring to?

It is one of the most recommended books in book recommendation threads.

I've seen it mentioned in a dozen threads here since I ordered it (on an HN recommendation) a month ago.

This article points to some sources, looks like the same ones referred to in 'Why We Sleep': https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/12/even-smal...

Studies cited: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12683478 https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353

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