That's really cool. Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Imitation can only be playing catch-up. The best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing.
Impossible burgers seriously nail the taste and texture and nutritional proportions. It also seems like it will be much more cost effective to create them than the aforementioned petri dish burgers. When I tried an impossible burger it seriously made me excited for the future. The imitation meats from before had some serious problems, but just trust me, you need to try this one if you haven't already.
For context: I am a red blooded American meat eater.
I've had it in burger patty form on a bun with lettuce, tomato, pickles, ketchup, mustard, and mayo. I've also had it crumbled up in vegan lasagna. Both ways tasted great.
[edit] lol... okay next post contradicts my report... well anyway don’t expect the temps and results to exactly map would be my takeaway
(On the flipside it does feel like the Beyond Burger is best a greasy "medium" or "medium well". The best I've had that served is in a vegan variation of a Big Mac. It's easy to get Impossible and Beyond confused, so maybe that's what you experienced?)
Certainly we aren't going to "eliminate" animal suffering, the word the above comment used, but reduction is another matter.
While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore.
I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.
For other cuisines, where centuries of culinary creativity mostly went towards making meat, this is the only viable approach to weaning us off growing animals for meaty foods.
Having a few dishes that simply don't contain meat is a pretty low standard to set. I think good vegetarian cuisine should also make up for the lost nutritional value of meat (e.g. protein through lentils, seitan, tofu, etc), and of course, have the creativity and effort go into making it delicious. In German/Austrian cuisine, I find that often the vegetarian dishes are an afterthought, being more often on par with a side dish, rather than a true main course.
Of course it is. Vegetarian food is a strict subset of all food.
I'm not a vegetarian, but I can certainly say that products based on a previous living animal are certainly not a "subset" of vegetable based diets.
What a most ridiculous assertion to make.
Yes, of course, by the number of individual ingredient options, keeping meat out is a "subset" in the strictest of mathematical definitions, but that is a largely useless argument.
The point is, while this is changing a lot in the US coasts for example, in most other places in the US (and even worse in parts of Europe I've travelled to), the dishes that are actually vegetarian (contain only ingredients derived from vegetables or spices), are a VERY small subset, usually side dishes.
But in Indian cuisine (and probably Ethiopian as the other poster stated), you could have just as much of a variety of dishes that are just made from vegetables, that you wouldn't grow tired of eating mashed potatoes, green beans, and salads.
Vietnamese cuisine also kind of works if you know how to make a good veg stock. My vegan fried basically lives out of a local Vietnamese place.
Chinese stir fries can be made any way you like. Again, you will need to be a good cook to get add sufficient richness and umami to a veg only stir fry, but with a good base of chinese spices, the sky is the limit.
You may see a trend here. Any cuisine that relies on spices to impart flavor to the dish, can be easily ported over to a veg only format. Western dishes depend on leveraging the innate flavors in the ingredients, and veggies don't fare quite as well in that regard.
honorary mention: (cuisines that taste great veg, but do get a huuuge boost when meat is added) * Middle eastern falafel-hummus-salad based cuisine (these are no normal salads. Huge variety in salads here) * Mexican ( treat it like a Subway with better ingredients. Most veg Indians that I know of, live off of Subways anyways. We are hard wired to like Rajma Chawal...so mexican feels like home)
> I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.
The "immediately change" connotation of "cold-turkey" doesn't make much sense here. The commenter seems to imply that eliminating entire cuisines -- i.e. having "entire cuisines inaccessible" -- is a difficult problem for people, regardless of the speed at which you do it. And I agree with that. Which is why I find it weird that he thinks it's weird why people who weren't born on vegetarian cuisines can't just switch to them, when introduced. I would argue that even if that were possible for most people, things like "Impossible Burger" are necessary for a successful transition.
I didn't read it like this at all. He's arguing to bring more vegetarian cuisines to the forefront to raise awareness of the possibilities that exist. His critique was against lauding the "impossible" as the solution to getting everyone on veganism immediately.
> it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore.
I don't disagree that ventures like Impossible Burger are a convoluted way to reduce meat consumption. But I disagree that introducing vegetarian cuisines is a simpler "solution" -- if we mean to actually solve the problem -- for the reason that he states in his next paragraph: it's very difficult to voluntarily give up the cuisines you've lived your life on, and this includes the many meat-centered cuisines found in non-vegetarian cultures. Meat-alternatives may be complicated and difficult, but so is the problem they hope to solve.
I applaud efforts such as the impossible burger. But maybe, we should have a gander at the 'very much possible' first.
Everyone in the house looks forward to the veg day, because we know it will be special. The techniques needed to cook good vegetarian food are fundamentally different, in a way that meat can't take advantage of it.
You would never want to eat a parmesan beef or a chicken pastrami. It just won't work. Similarly some dishes only work as veg dishes.
There are many indian veg dishes (daal-baati-churma, Undio, garlic-tomato sabji, misal, usal, chat) which simply do not have any non-veg equivalent. And all of these are main courses with the vegetable being the highlight.
I like a few Indian dishes, so I can appreciate what can be done in the vegetarian space.
Even so, I'd find it difficult to believe that any of them could match a properly cooked smoked BBQ beef brisket in flavor or texture.
Though I'm sure more than a few would make good side dishes, or work well with the brisket as an ingredient.
Not indian, didn't grow up with indian cuisine, love brisket, eat the best in the world couple times a month, and I am definitely a texture eater and not vegetarian.
Good curries with fresh spices have made me defacto vegetarian and nearly vegan for long stretches of time without any intentionality or effort on my part, they are hardly side dishes, they activate feelings of wellness and primal satisfaction in parts of my brain I thought only steak could provide, I'm glad I was introduced to good indian cuisine in my late 20s. Obviously the reductionist truism is correct "steak != not steak", but indian food relegated to side dishes? Pffft.
The point is to have a similar abstract value of "tastiness", rather than having the exact same flavor or texture.
The best Indian food I've had in the US is always when a friend's mom is visiting.
Trying an Indian dish in the region it hails from, completely changes your perception of dish. If you are ever in Delhi, do try their Mughlai cusine. It is the Indian equivalent of meat heaven.
I grew up on typical American cuisine and then became vegetarian, and I was disappointed by a lot of vegetarian recipes that were designed to make sense to people with my culinary background. However, I recognize that switching someone's cuisine is a big thing to ask for; reducing meat consumption will go a lot smoother if it doesn't mean switching to a new culinary tradition - which is why cookbooks featuring those recipes that I didn't like are so popular.
To me, transforming people's food preference requires obviously much more complex solutions than replicating meat.
It doesn't have to be a fake burger. Just something tasty for a healthy daily dose of vegetables.
For me, soy doesn't qualify. It's one of the most common crops in the world and there's already enough of it in other things I eat.
How so? On face value this feels like an excuse for simply making poor diet choices. If I'm mistaken, then... cook?
Nobody suggested healthy eating requires one to cook. There's a myriad of places everywhere that serve healthy food, so if you're foregoing veggies, it's your choice. s/cheeseburger/salad/g; done.
Even if you're unwilling or unable to cook, there are plenty of vegetables that are still delicious and nutritious raw. I suggest baby carrots, tomatoes, avocado, and peppers. If you're willing to microwave, there are a whole host of "microwave in bag" options as well...
The thing is, "healthy" is often associated with freshly prepared foods. The non-cooking-yourself option for (hopefully) freshly prepared food would be reasonable usually sit-down restaurants, most of which offer plenty of vegetables because they're cheaper than the main course. And of course, delivery is an option.
(Obviously, "freshly prepared" as framed in opposition to pre-prepared with additives, handling, and ingredient selection focused more on the taste & texture surviving longer term delivery and storage.)
I've had some fantastic vegan food, but the only vegan food that's a commodity for me is Indian food or faux-meat products. So convincingly good faux-meat is probably the easiest way to move people.
My big problem is that most meals without meat I'm not satiated. This also happens when the main protein is fish. For salads I hear a bunch of people joke that you get tired of eating before you get full. I also think this is habit for me. I'm not sure if meat alternatives address this.
The tastes of the various kinds of meatballs she was have were interesting, at the very least. I'd never had anything like it. One particular kind – can't remember the name of the veggie it was made of – was so good I made my own later. A unique taste with its own unique texture: soft, dry, crumbly, yet condensing nicely after chewing.
I'm looking forward to meat imitations. I'd try one eagerly if I had the chance. I like the taste of meat, and it would let me have meat without the massive animal husbandry ecosystem required to support it. What's not to like?
In the meantime, I'm sure there are tons of things I'd enjoy, that I haven't tried yet, which are also completely vegan.
Which doesnt contradict your point that veg/vegan options have taste and experiences that are worthwhile in their own right, but I shall forever be glad of the time I had pakora thatd recaptured the taste of KFC, as well as other chewy options to round out the relatively small set of options my tastebuds find palatable.
I certainly wish it was different, but from my perspective veggies are out there for anyone to find. Meat tastes/textures are not out there for the vegs/vegans yet.
Plus, the easiest way to reduce meat consumption is to provide drop-in replacements for those that are seeking that taste/texture in ways that done make them regret the choice.
Fortunately, fish is fairly easy to imitate with soy, but nothing quite beats that melt-in-your-mouth quality of slowly baked salmon. That's about the only meat I eat anymore, though I still experiment with substitutions. Usually some kind of tofu and a thick-but-viscous sauce of some kind, but even then it's flavoured with dashi.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40559474/this-salmon-burger-tast...
Disclaimer: I am a cofounder of this company, we have recently rebranded to Prime Roots from Terramino
A lot of these products are only available in the States, I find. Aspiring vegetarians and vegans down under have to wait.
There's a Beijing-style street food place in a suburb of Dallas. If you're ever in the area and want to check it out, it's called Fatni BBQ. My absolute favorite items on the menu are both vegetarian, and I would gladly go there and get only non-meat items because they're _that damn good_.
Item one is what the menu calls "hibachi tofu". It's a basket of tofu that's all been seared on the grill. It has all the wonderful tastes and textures I associate with fried cheese, except it's not quite as gooey. I'm lucky it comes in a giant basket, because I will devour that so fast.
Item two is what the menu calls "hibachi gluten", which is a skewer containing several pieces of fried wheat gluten. Most of the pieces are cut in a spiral pattern, but there's usually one end piece on each skewer that's shaped kind of like an arrowhead. I seriously feel sorry for the celiacs of the world, because this stuff is genuinely addictive. It tastes like it's made of both meat and fried dough at the same time. Each skewer is about $1, and I never order less than five. And I still leave wanting more but having to cut myself off because I can spend way too much there if I'm not careful.
Oh, and every single item on their menu is dipped in a cumin-forward mix of spices that's just amazing.
They're actually not a vegetarian place. They have lots of meat items on their menu, but honestly they're just not nearly as good as the tofu or the gluten.
Isn't that most vegan food already? I.e. vegetables
Compare the use of vegetables in American cuisine versus vegetarian Indian cuisine.
As someone mentioned above, food is a part of your culture. And there are many aspects of people's food cultures that they'd prefer not to get rid of. Someone may hate animals dying, but love the social gathering of a back yard party with burgers on the grill. These people may want to replicate this experience with a bean burger. Someone else has fond memories of their grandma's spaghetti and meatballs, and needs to figure out some way to replicate it.
There are vegetarian cultures that have refined their cuisine over thousands of years to be nutritionally adequate and delicious. Western vegan food tends to just be imitations of non-vegan Western food and it's unfortunate.
The creater of the Impossible Burger said he could create new types of meat. I think of it as meat of animals that have never evolved. However that's not their focus.
But if this leads to less total meat consumption for the population, I'm all for it.
There are. They're called vegetables, fruits, nuts, beans, and grains.
You know, I'm not a vegan, nor even a vegetarian. But as I've gotten older (I'm knocking on 52 - and god damn used to love a nicely cooked fillet steak!) I've found my eating habits tending more towards vegetarian. The last red meat I ate was a year ago...not through health reasons, but because I've kinda gone off it. I still eat some chicken, but even then it's a dwindling part of my diet.
I'm not an extremist, but as I've gotten older, I've begun to find the idea of eating another living being more than slightly repugnant. It's not that I've succumbed to vegan ideology, but I kinda got here by myself. I'm lucky to live in a rural area and bump into cows and sheep all the time. This may sound a bit odd, but I see them and interact with them and one day thought what nice affectionate(?)/curious animals and then, boom! would I kill and eat my cats?
I even recently realised that most of the clothes that I wear are mostly synthetic or cotton based, even the boots I wear. The thought of walking around in another being's slaughtered and dead skin kinda irked me for a few years so I try to buy "man-made" foot wear now.
I think the trick with becoming vegetarian (a starting point) and onto becoming vegan (though I still love eggs; if we treat egg layers nice, and if we treat cows nice can't we still have eggs and milk for a while?) we need to learn how to season and spice our meals to make them appealing.
I'm about 85% of the way there were it not for some dairy products, and in a rural area having better availability to a wider range of vegetables - which believe it or not doesn't happen. And also where I can buy individual carrots, onions, sweet potato by weight....etc (I'm single - don't need a bag of 20 carrots!).
I'm also not sure, philosophically, about the idea of creating synthetic meats to remind us of what it was like to eat a factory slaughtered animal - it seems like creating a video game to satisfy some needs to be 18th century slave owners.
If we had better knowledge about how to make vegetables more inviting, and more available, we wouldn't need this. I ate a vegetarian lasagne the other day, it was glorious. Sure some dairy products were involved but no cows died upside down in a factory being bolted through their skulls...but yes I am aware of the factory farming of milk cows to the tremendous detriment of their health and comfort.
Becoming vegan is a hard thing. I still crave Gressingham "chinese duck", pancakes and hoisin (I use my own, their's is shit).....but I am striving towards this. I genuinely don't think synthetic meats aid this cause.
I am also trying to become a better human and not exploit other living beings for my tastebud sensory gratification.
Not (really) trying to ruin your life here, but this idea was crushed for me when I realised that only female chickens can lay eggs, and that roosters end up in the shredder as soon as their sex is identified. I guess that's still less suffering than those that are raised for slaughter in industrial farming, but it's still not great...