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Comment by meritt | Hacker News Reader

> Apple seems to have underestimated iPhone SE demand to a significant degree

I would love to purchase a new iPhone (or Android) if they were to make a new device with a comparable form factor to the SE. Instead, everything has progressed to these two-handed monstrosities that have resulted in fanny packs [1] becoming fashionable again simply to hold the damn things.

[1] https://www.today.com/style/fanny-packs-are-so-popular-they-...

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I don't know what phone I am going to get after my iPhone SE no longer works after OS bloat kicks in. It's the perfect phone pretty much. I like android better but I can't find a phone this size that works in the android universe. Surely there must be others like me that want a capable phone that isn't the size of a tablet?

I’ve seen others reference the Sony Xperia Z2 compact as a SE replacement but even that phone has a 5” screen.

At this rate it seems like the smartphone market has abandoned small form factor phones.

The X2 is two years older than the iPhone SE and the successor (Z3) is 45% larger. I'm not sure how anyone can reasonably conclude it's a replacement.

The XZ2 compact was released in April 2018 so it’s newer than the SE.

I think you might be confusing it with the non-Compact edition?

Ah, totally missed that. Thank you

The XZ4 Compact should also come out soon(ish), if the leaks are trustworthy as usual.

Pixel 3 (not 3XL) to me is perfect size, has the "it works" simplicity and polish of iPhone, and tuned software / camera tweaks of Google that make me not miss iPhone at all. Specifically the camera is just amazing, the portrait mode and wide angle screen shot features, and AI / visual core chip tuning the pictures makes the quality better than any other phone I've used.

Pixel 3 is 5.5"

The Pixel 3 is huge compared to what I'm looking for. I know the bigger screens like 5.5" are normal now but it is too big for me, I like to travel light and hate big phones in my pocket and hands. I like computing on an actual desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard and just use my phone for texting, maps, and taking photos, etc.

https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size#/phones/size/Google-P...

Last month, a Redditor explained why the SE form factor likely won't be returning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/a68a1v/we_get_it_you...

Larger screens tend to lead to people to use their phones more, which results in more app purchases[0]. (which results in more money being made in Apple's services division). It's a way to offset the decrease in new phone sales.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-banks-on-bigger-screens-t...

It's also much better for the platform that there isn't such a wide range between screen sizes. It's incredibly hard to make UIs scale from the SE to the XS Max and both be as functional and good looking on both.

> It's also much better for the platform that there isn't such a wide range between screen sizes.

Not a wide range? What about the iPad and iPad Pro? iOS apps need a responsive interface anyway.

Ipad apps are separately purchased apps though.

Not always, a lot of apps are universal and can be installed on both iPhones and iPads, with the UI being adapted to each.

Oh interesting. If there is a separate install is it still potentially a universal all? I guess I was wrong.

I'm not sure I understand the question. You need to install it on both your iPhone and your iPad for sure. But universal apps are the exact same binary. But a lot of developers prefer to create 2 different app, 1 for iPhone and 1 for iPad for various reasons; charging separately for each being one possible reason.

No they're not. They can be but there's nothing requiring them to be.

That was just one person's opinion. Now that earnings are down, I'd guess that there's someone at Apple floating the idea of a releasing a small iPhone to boost sales, because there's a small but vocal minority of people that really want one and will immediately buy it.

I know two people who said they won’t buy another phone until the day their SE won’t turn on. I agree, SE form factor solves a great problem for some people. Not everyone wants a big screen!

Apple either isn’t making enough money on the SE, not listening to their survey group, or an executive doesn’t care. They need to fix this.

Does anyone really think Apple hasn’t done market research to determine which size phone would be best for them to sell?

As mentioned in one of the other comments, SE was using the production lines of the 5/5s. It probably isn’t worth it to keep those going for an older phone and the R&D for a new smaller phone is a huge cost. I’m sure it’s been proven that most people want larger screens at this point.

I mean, even the newer cheaper phone they have, XR, is larger than their standard XS.

> Does anyone really think Apple hasn’t done market research to determine which size phone would be best for them to sell?

Given that around 70% of the iPhones in use are the 4.7" and under sized phones, I would say it is questionable. People like that form factor.

Apple clearly didn't think bigger form factors made sense for a while, until Samsung proved them terribly wrong.

I do agree that in this case their market research about the SE is probably solid, but I think it's a mistake to assume that their market research is always correct.

I went from a 6S to an 8 Plus last year. I dind't go with the X because it was a first-generation product.

The 6S feels comically small now. But, the Plus is too big. I think taking the bezels off the top and bottom would be the perfect size phone. Maybe a little smaller.

I upgrade in the fall, so I'm interested to see what comes out. I'm looking forward to going back to a smaller phone, but the SE and 6S are too small IMO.

I have an iPhone 8 Plus and it is larger than I like and heavier. I bought it because I needed the larger screen to watch tutorial videos on the go that had a lot of text and the battery life was better than any other iPhone.

But the X size phone is tempting. But I don’t see myself buying another phone for 3 years.

When Steve Jobs was alive, market research didn’t dictate all these things. They built the best product possible and the ergonomics of the hand guided the shape of the phone.

No no no. People with small hands don’t want large phones. You can’t take ergonomics out of the equation. You can add a small keyboard or whatever you want. Some people actually can’t use big devices. Shorter people are not a small minority for crying out loud. There’s a decision being made somewhere along the line that’s taking the smaller phone away from these people. It’s probably not an issue in focus groups. That leaves you with the other two options.

Or maybe there’s a fourth option: they’re listening and they know something you don’t. Maybe 1% of people will never buy an iPhone again if it’s not the SE, but that doesn’t mean it’s worth it to keep offering it.

I would love to purchase a new iPhone (or Android) if they were to make a new device with a comparable form factor to the SE.

I am in complete agreement with your attitude. However, it looks like the SE isn't coming back, and I wanted an Apple Watch anyway (after wearing smartwatches since the first Pebble...or SPOT if that counts). So I gave in, bought an iPhone XS and a watch. Previous smartwatch usage told me that the phone could probably remain safely in the bag most of the day. An Apple Watch makes it stay in that bag even more, I found out. If I'm out and about without the messenger bag/man purse, the cellular keeps me in contact. So for me, at least, carrying the monstrosity is reasonably solved.

Every use case is different, so this might not be a solution for everyone. And, yes, it is ridiculous that the solution is "go spend more money" because there isn't a reasonably-sized phone available. OTOH, most of my phone looking is "who's calling? What does the wife want on SMS? What's that reminder?" which is easily taken care of on the watch. When I do need a bigger screen, it's nice to have...well, a bigger bigger screen. :-)

I used to think the same and didn't like the move to the larger phones. Harder to use with one hand, more bulky to carry around.

But then I fired up my old iPhone 5 and quickly appreciated the larger screen of the iPhone 8. Although I still like holding the smaller one better.

I think a lot depends on your use-cases, what you spend time on your phone doing, where you're carrying it, etc.

I really like iOS, but one think I really envy about the Android ecosystem is that there are multiple vendors, so users aren't locked to just the most-popular size phone.

Do you think this is because the larger screen is inherently better or perhaps it's because the iOS and the whole app eco-system is geared toward larger screen? Perhaps a little of both?

Both, but more so because the larger screen is just inherently nicer.

Basically I think the ideal is a screen that's as large as possible while still being usable with one hand. The iPhone 8 is just over the edge for my hand size, but it's close.

My thought is they're trying to transition the phone to being your watch, with a 'tablet' for serious typing in a bag of some kind.

I mean, the Apple Watch is seriously good for most cases, it reliably sends messages using siri, I can answer calls on it, I can read my messages and do basically anything the phone can do, albeit much slower.

However, they'll have to brick my SE before I give it up. I bought an SE just before they got discontinued last year with apple care. I "downgraded" from a 7, this phone is definitely the best iPhone that exists for me and my slightly smaller than giants hands.. Even if a lot of apps are obviously not tested on the SE's size anymore. :(

I vastly prefer the SE over any other current-ish options. I'll be really annoyed when my one dies, I suspect, and I wish I'd bought another one before they discontinued.

This is pretty much all about pockets though - I typically wear a 3XL glove so it's not being driven by reach. I can accept needing to carry a bag if I need a laptop. For a phone it's insane.

I have had wrist pains ever since getting the 6 back in 2016. Now that I'm on the X, it's gotten worse. I fucking hate these larger phones. They cause significant pain for me, and I don't even have tiny hands.

I have regular pixel 2. It doesn't need 2 hands.

Pixel 2 is nearly identical in size to iPhone XS, both of which are 40% larger than iPhone SE.

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