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Comment by jklinger410 | Hacker News Reader

>if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device

As far as I'm concerned, until evidence to the contrary is provided, most people either don't do this or know how.

Relying on a pinned app for smart phones is a good way to kill your startup.

>you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out

In fact, the statistics prove[1] that this is false. Most app installs are to try it out, and promptly delete it. Most users will delete your app shortly after installing it.

Informed opinions are nice to share, uninformed ones not so much.

[1]https://www.emarketer.com/content/most-apps-get-deleted-with...

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> >you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out

> In fact, the statistics prove[1] that this is false. Most app installs are to try it out, and promptly delete it. Most users will delete your app shortly after installing it.

I'm really not following how this disproves what was being said. They were saying it's difficult to get people to even install for a test run, and you're saying most installs are test runs. There's nothing mutually exclusive about those two statements.

> Informed opinions are nice to share, uninformed ones not so much.

What a pompous response to make when you're not actually falsifying anything in their post.

>They were saying it's difficult to get people to even install for a test run

How is it difficult to get someone to install something for a test run when like 90% of app installs are test runs? So you're saying it's difficult to get someone to install your app at all, and that has nothing to do with your product or your marketing, but it has something to do with the technology?

And the PWA experience of pinning things to your home screen, which we have absolutely no reason to believe is widely done, is a better option?

There are 200 billion some odd app installs per year (primarily for test runs), there are ??? mobile PWA app home screen pins per year.

I'd like to see you try and support OPs claim rather than argue about my comment.

> How is it difficult to get someone to install something for a test run when like 90% of app installs are test runs?

The link you shared does not provide any statistics about the amount of installs relative to didn't-installs. It only deals with the set of people who have already installed, which says nothing to prove or disprove the point in contention (that increasing the set of people who have installed at all is difficult).

> So you're saying it's difficult to get someone to install your app at all

Yes [they are].

> and that has nothing to do with your product or your marketing, but it has something to do with the technology?

Based only on what they wrote, not necessarily. They only seem to be saying that the statistics you provided do not support your conclusion:

>> you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out

> In fact, the statistics prove[1] that this is false. Most app installs are to try it out, and promptly delete it. Most users will delete your app shortly after installing it.

Ah, if I had seen you post this before I did, I wouldn't have bothered to post my own. Thank you for summing it up so succinctly and respectfully.

To recap. The claim is that PWAs are preferable to apps because "people don't test drive apps."

In fact, people test drive apps as a rule, and none of them install PWAs. I have shown a 2 second googled piece of evidence showing the degree to which people test drive apps. No evidence to support the ease of use or frequency of PWA homescreen pins exists/has been provided.

I'm going to stop responding to this thread unless your comment contains a substantive argument supporting OP.

> To recap. The claim is that PWAs are preferable to apps because "people don't test drive apps."

Ah. Now I see where the confusion lies. I don't think that's what the OP was saying.

> Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out.

No one in this thread is claiming that people who install apps don't test drive them. Your evidence proves that they do, and no one has challenged or disagreed with that evidence.

The claim is not related to how often people who download an app test it out and delete it soon after. You're focused on the wrong detail. The claim is that they aren't even downloading apps to test them in the first place.

> I'm going to stop responding to this thread unless your comment contains a substantive argument supporting OP.

The OP is the only one arguing OP's perspective right now. Everyone else is just trying to get you to understand what the OP is actually saying rather than what you claim they're saying.

Let's try an analogy:

> Millennials are increasingly choosing not to eat at casual dining chains such as Applebees.

Responding to that by saying that Applebees is the most popular casual dining chain by a given metric does not disprove this claim. Whether people choose Applebees more often than Chilis has nothing to do with the fact that they're both losing millennial customers.

>They're saying it's difficult to get people to install an app even to test drive them, and saying it's easier to get them to visit your webpage.

But getting people to visit your website being easy does not mean that is where you should host your app. I don't believe people are going to say "Wow this website was useful, let me pin it to my screen." I believe that is a niche thing that nerds do, and has awful results for the rest.

>The claim is that they aren't even downloading apps to test them in the first place.

But there is nothing here to show that a PWA is the solution to get someone to download the app! The assertion is that the download is the issue, which there isn't any evidence for. If downloading apps was such a problem, why would people constantly be test driving apps? They may uninstall because of space or tracking concerns, or maybe it's a cleanliness thing, but I am refuting the base claim that "space on your phone" being a deterrent means that PWA is a solution.

Get the download through marketing, hold the download through value.

>Everyone else is just trying to get you to understand what the OP is actually saying

I think I understand what OP is saying just fine.

> How is it difficult to get someone to install something for a test run when like 90% of app installs are test runs?

As I said in my previous post I'm clearly missing something here. Why are those mutually exclusive at all?

You're saying that most installations are test runs. That implies people are leery about leaving an app they don't want installed. Why does that mean that it's somehow easy to get users to install in the first place? It sounds like they don't want a bunch of apps installed.

> So you're saying it's difficult to get someone to install your app at all, and that has nothing to do with your product or your marketing, but it has something to do with the technology?

No? When did I say your product or marketing were unrelated to install rate?

> And the PWA experience of pinning things to your home screen, which we have absolutely no reason to believe is widely done, is a better option?

When did I make that claim?

> I'd like to see you try and support OPs claim rather than argue about my comment.

Why does disagreeing with you mean I support the OP? Whether or not I support PWAs, native applications, both, neither, or even "native" wrappers around a PWA is irrelevant.

My stance is that your statistics don't disprove the claim made, and to then claim that the OP is arguing from a point of ignorance is not okay.

>As I said in my previous post I'm clearly missing something here. Why are those mutually exclusive at all?

If it was hard to get people to test drive your app, then 90% of app installs would not be test runs. They would be one time permanent installs.

>It sounds like they don't want a bunch of apps installed.

It also sounds like people are constantly trying new apps, no? Precisely what OP said people do not like to do.

>No? When did I say your product or marketing were unrelated to install rate?

Again, OPs claim was that somehow PWAs would be a preferable medium to app installs. This implies that the medium is the problem, which I am saying is not the case. "The reason people aren't downloading my app is because it's in the app store instead of being a PWA" is essentially the claim.

>Whether or not I support PWAs...is irrelevant. My stance is that your statistics don't disprove the claim made, and to then claim that the OP is arguing from a point of ignorance is not okay.

I think we both know that I could scour the internet and find 1,000 articles filled with statistics showing that people are constantly installing and uninstalling apps, and I would find almost none showing PWAs being successful in a business case. I'm not going to apologize for being incredulous about unsubstantiated conjecture that I have only ever seen proof of the opposite for.

>If it was hard to get people to test drive your app, then 90% of app installs would not be test runs. They would be one time permanent installs.

That doesn't logically follow.

Consider the possibility: Only 1 in 1000 of people who learn about your app is persuaded to install it. And then, of the small number who install it, 90% of those uninstall after 10 minutes.

I've exaggerated the numbers to make the point.

The point is it can be hard to get people to test drive your app and also have most installs be test runs.

They are not mutually exclusive.

> If it was hard to get people to test drive your app, then 90% of app installs would not be test runs. They would be one time permanent installs.

I think you and I have opposite understandings of the same data. You're looking at a high abandon rate after installation and claiming that it represents an increase in customers going out to find apps.

I don't think there's any substantive evidence of this. You have evidence showing that customers have a strict filter on what they keep on their phones. Why does a tightening of one stage of the pipeline have anything to do with a loosening at a previous stage?

There aren't a fixed number of installations that stick, uninstalling an application does not mean the customer will go right back out and install something else.

> I think we both know that I could scour the internet and find 1,000 articles filled with statistics showing that people are constantly installing and uninstalling apps

That people uninstall most apps they eventually do install does not imply a regular stream of new installations.

> Most users will delete your app shortly after installing it.

Which is why it is so crucial to focus on the core utility of the app. If the app is fun to use, great. But the apps that stick around provide services that are essential to the user.

I wonder what would happen if you provided instructions for pinning a web app on popular platforms. Would users ignore this new information?

Many websites in the past have provided instructions for bookmarking.

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