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Comment by jhasse | Hacker News Reader

In the last 10 years I have never seen a C++ project using Makefiles. Also C and C++ have different set of skills. I probably couldn't contribute to a C project, as I only know the C++ standard library and modern C++'s idioms.

I think you really need to differentiate between C, C++ before C++11 and modern C++ (i.e. C++11/14/17 and newer).

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I think it is more of embedded and the desktop C/C++. Makefile is kinda forced through vendors and some "libraries" forcing you to use make as they're exclusively generating (STM) or relying on them (ugfx, touchgfx).

I actually switched some time ago from C to C++ only - when possible. And about the features of modern C++ standards: On embedded you can't use STD or excessively use templates. Some features will crash because of the Memory Protection Unit and are not usable when using the MPU.

But if we are talking about embedded, we shouldn't be making comparisions with ReactJS then. Of course the latter is going to be easier to get into than embedded C++, but not because of JavaScript vs. C++.

I understand where you are coming from. But I don't think that webdev is easier just because it is. Embedded is not the rocket science some people claim it to be.

I believe there is a lot of room where we can improve and lower the barrier for entry. For example better packaging system, better IDE support (CLion is already very good tbf), modernizing vendor api, improve documentation and testing solutions, compiler that actually throw meaningful errors and of course good learning material...

I know it is a lot to ask and I don't want to sound like a ungrateful child. There are a lot of people working their asses off for free and all that. But i think it is not wrong to point some of the problems we have.

Except that cmake is often used to generate makefiles, so now to debug an issue you have to understand both cmake and makefiles! Not much of a progress if you ask me..

Hm ... I've never looked at the Makefile to debug CMake. When did you need to do that?

You can also generate Ninja files btw.

Yes, it just takes a lot of reading and making connections to build a consistent historical picture.

Becomes very easy as soon as you're up to date.

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