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Comment by strken | Hacker News Reader

My dad made me buy him some hole filling putty with my pocket money after I did this to his workbench at an age where I really should have known better. Apparently you're meant to clamp an offcut between the piece you're drilling into and the bench.

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In retrospect do you think your dad's approach was an effective teaching method?

I'm slowly trying to figure out what kind of disciplinarian I'm going to be with my boys.

Depends if it was accompanied by insults and derision (bad) or patience and understanding that it is a learning opportunity and mistakes need to be rectified (note I didn't say paid for)

This is the approach I (try, and try and try and try) to take with my kids (6,4,2). I repeatedly tell them I will never be mad at them for mistakes, but they have to help fix them- whatever that may be. I also tell them I will get mad if they do it on purpose and/or I’ve instructed them not to do said thing that caused whatever issue. I try very hard to be explicit with instruction. Saying “be careful” doesn’t mean a whole lot, but saying “pour the water slowly and with two hands” can lead to a good result. Or “don’t jump off the couch because [insert reasons]”.

Frankly, they’re young and even when they’ve done something on purpose or are being bratty I try to coach them up again, sometimes I lose it and get mad- but I never use derision or name calling.

Losing it is usually just “Why? WHY?! Why did you just pull the step stool out and use the Christmas tree as a punching bag after I told you to stay back because it will fall over?!”

I use my logic brain to try and rationalize myself into a calm state, “well you told them to be careful with the jug of water, you didn’t say don’t pour it all over the dining room table”.

Man, they find some awesome ways to make a disaster sometimes...

I told my son I would never be made at him for a mistake, then he mistakenly tried to kick my hand while wrestling and his heel nailed my jaw and I bit hard into my bottom lip.

I was so mad ;)

But generally, yeah, I talk to him about stuff and go over consequences and empathy and such, and I agree it works pretty well.

This is a treasure trove of wisdom. Thank you for sharing. The challenge I have is my hard wiring for anger with pain. I'm a goofy dad but when my toddler swings his skull full speed into my jaw, a spark ignites something in me and my civilized brain can muster one thing: put him down, go to the garage, and kick a garbage can. Otherwise I have this uncorked rage and I feel scared with it.

I'm not proud of it but I acknowledge that it's in my wiring.

It's ok to go kick a garbage can sometimes. Raising kids is hard enough without feeling bad for damaging garbage cans.

Pro-tip, though: don't kick walls. Broken toes suck.

A stud once every 16 inches? I like those odds!

Could have been masonry.

Broken drywall sucks too. Especially after it's been sitting there half-repaired for 6 months and your spouse keeps nagging you about it.

Or you repair the hole and spackle/mud it, but put off painting it for 3+ years :)

Better kicking a garbage can than the child haha. I can totally relate as my toddler does the same thing. Saying “don’t do that” only makes him do it again. Saying “that hurts” makes him laugh.

In my book, it's OK and maybe even a good thing to react emotionally (verbally, not physically). A good pain scream seems to put some fright into my kids ("Daddy's really strong! If he screams, it must really hurt!"). I think it teaches them that their actions have consequences, and it makes me feel just a little bit better.

Amen, I know exactly how you feel. I historically have had zero patience for incompetence or bullshit. My temper generally flashes and goes away pretty quickly, as in I can get pissed at you and use some crappy tone/attitude and then work through it or be over it in the same 30 second span.

This can flash with my kids, but frankly I’m surprised at how much patience I naturally have with them. I work on it, as I mentioned before, but the level of empathy I have is many multiples of what I was capable of before my first child was born- and this might be one the best gifts (as of yet) that fatherhood has bestowed upon me. It’s made me a better person all around.

I too good around and wrestle with my kids, it’s pretty much my favorite thing to do with them, but there is nothing that can make me see red (literally and figuratively) like taking an adorable little foot to the nose, eye, and/or balls. My dad would get mad, as is my natural inclination, and I still remember how shitty I would feel. It takes everything I can muster not to get mad when it happens, but I usually just drop to the ground (only sometimes is it voluntary) and put on a show (only partially exaggerated) of daddy being hurt.

This has had unanticipated consequences, like them thinking it’s funny that if you hit dad in the groin, you can make mom laugh and jump on him while watching tears roll down his cheek. So we nipped that with the same “if it’s on purpose you’re in trouble” method.

Recent anecdote to add: I replaced our third TV in 18 months yesterday. Our middle previously killed it on accident with a super soaker he brought in the house to get his brother with. The second time he was using his plastic sword to fight the pirates on TV at grandmas, and this time he was swinging the wooden fishing pole he got as a Christmas present, it left his hands and took out the display panel.

The TV is mounted 6’ high and he wasn’t being malicious. Other than at grandmas he wasn’t even trying to interact with th TV. So how the hell can I punish him for (really expensive) accidents? I told him it takes two weeks for me to work to be able to afford to fix it. He’s got to do a couple extra basic chores in the morning and night, and I had him give me ideas for how we could prevent it in the future. Most of which involved force fields and elaborate structures and didn’t address not using the living room as a jungle gym, but still...

Now that I’m thinking of it, I need to call my parents and apologize for my entire childhood. Again.

Making stuff is half figuring out what to do and half fixing the inevitable mistakes

It was more effective than just grounding would have been, since it had a certain fairness to it. He also helped me apply the putty, and gave half my pocket money back after it was fixed "because the jar was still half full", which is kind of funny in retrospect.

It's probably easier to create teaching moments when your kid does something negligent or thoughtless, rather than downright malicious.

That’s awesome. Your dad had a good head on his shoulders during those moments. Cudos.

update:spelling

Did you mean “kudos”? ;)

Completely unrelated but since you are asking about teaching methods. My father did this regarding food. If eventually it turns out my sister and me didn't like a particular thing recipes were adjusted.

But to make us kids at least try, if we didn't finish our meals or we're being picky. He would put the plate on the counter and make us stand there until we finished. It was effective. It wasn't cruel, it was simply a method of making sure I finished my meal and tried new things. A solid balance in my opinion.

>> method of making sure I finished my meal

That approach has been linked to the obesity crisis. MacDonalds knows all about it, the need to finish what is given to you regardless of whether you are still hungry. They observe the lengths customers go to get that last fry at the bottom of the container. We should at least consider teaching kids today to not eat everything on the plate every time. Perhaps they should learn to stop on their own.

Come to think of it, that may explain some of my serving sizes. When I eat at Subway, I always take the 6" size and it satiates me. When I eat a pizza, I eat the whole thing and I'm not satiated before I've finished it, even though it's vastly more filling than a 6" sub.

Do like the Japanese, stop when you feel 80% full, let the brain catch on the the fact that you Are no longer hungry.

What if I feel 84% full?

You're getting down voted, but you make a good point.

I'm not sure what 80% full is either? Is it satiated rather than full?

There is a known trick to get these 4% out.

I recommend finishing your plate but then adjusting the timing/size of your next meal according to hunger.

The approach was to serve a reasonable amount of food. But the intent was to force me to try new things when I was simply being a picky eater. If I didnt like a particular thing after two or three meals, fair enough. It wasn't meant to force me to gorge myself, it was meant to force variety and it worked.

If I ate 80-90 percent and said I was full that was fine. When I was simply being picky because it was new, that's where that tactic came into play.

Yes

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