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Comment by gaius | Hacker News Reader

I think it's more subtle than that. For the micro to supplant the mini (mainframes are alive and well, thankyouverymuch) it had to become one. A contemporary PC running Linux or NT is not only faster than a VAX, it is actually more complicated under the hood. This should be easy to prove: do whatever you need to do to get a complete process listing of your preferred system. How much do you, probably an "expert" if you're even reading HN, know about each and every process? Try the same thing on a CP/M box if you have one...

The real lesson is, it's easier to make a simple thing more complex than it is to make a complex thing more simple.

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"it's easier to make a simple thing more complex than it is to make a complex thing more simple"

And unfortunately, that's why today's toys will be tomorrow's dinosaurs. That said, this is exactly why mobile is winning now. It's so much simpler. There's no reason it's so complicated to do something on a PC, other than that the simple thing from then has now become more complex

> this is exactly why mobile is winning now. It's so much simpler.

Are you sure? Here's a relevant quote :

I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone.

Bjarne Stroustrup

Maybe he's stuck using an Android phone?

As the owner of one, I get your point - sometimes it could be a little les computer like. OTOH I was using a mac book the other day and kept wondering a) why the arrow keys don't move the cursor or page view in text editing fields and b) why on earth it wouldn't let me just copy the files from the SD card in the camera connected to it.

It wanted to import them into iPhoto but couldn't do it, because iPhoto didn't recognize some files that used RAW format. I didn't mind that, but all I wanted to do was see the contents of the card in a finder window and move them myself. Eventually I had to borrow a USB card reader and stick the SD card into that.

I kept imagining Clippy for Mac: It looks like you know what you're doing. Do you think I'm going to let you put me out of a job?

I'm not sure for everything, but on iOS 4.1 with my iPod Touch (so no, I don't have a modern mobile phone, but this is basically the same) it's much easier to do the things most people do (Twitter, Facebook, email) than it is on a PC. Plus, want to install a game? A couple taps and a couple dollars, and you're ready to play a game within seconds.

Compare that with a PC: find a game online, create an account to download it, spend $20-$50 on it or perhaps just $10-$15 if it's a basic game, wait while it downloads, then step through the installer and if all goes well, you can play your game.

We're all programed to do it, and it's a no brainer for those of us that are used to it, but the iOS model is so much simpler for people who don't enjoy tweaking a machine and just want it to work.

  sudo apt-get install tremulous && tremulous

There's no reason it's so complicated to do something on a PC

Of course there are reasons why it's complicated to do things on a PC. A PC is an open-ended tool, that's why. One person might playing world of warcraft, while someone else might be using emacs to write a clojure web-app, while someone else might be using google sketchup to design a floorplan, while someone else is chatting on skype. Meanwhile I am using my PC to emulate the original sony playstation and post to hacker news, and my friend is watching a movie on Netflix.

Computers get simpler to use when people solve problems in permanent ways. They get harder to use when new challenges expose fundamental limitations of the existing design (IE the design was TOO simple).

That said, this is exactly why mobile is winning now. It's so much simpler.

For the user, maybe. Even though I knew it ahead of time, it was still a bit weird the first time I opened a debug terminal to my Android phone and found myself at a shell prompt. Putting Unix on a telephone is not my idea of making things simpler :-)

I can't say I find it complicated to do things on my PC though. I just don't want to cart it around all the time, or need to do all that stuff on the bus or in the park.

Regarding the mainframes, I changed it now from "extinct" to "almost extinct".

> it's easier to make a simple thing more complex than it is to make a complex thing more simple

Ha, yes, sort-of. That seems immediately right, but when you consider it, it doesn't quite make sense, in those words.

To make something more complex you must create new things. But to make something simpler you can just destroy a chunk of it. It is certainly easier to delete code than write it.

What I think is the point is: it is easy to make something better by just accumulating features; it is hard to make something better by removing features.

Deleting code is as difficult as the amount of other code that depends on it. It can be much, much harder than writing new code. For example, can you imagine removing a core shell command like grep? Practically impossible. Creating a new one--however hard--is still at least possible.

OK, what I am saying is that the original statement only makes sense because it has an implication of maintaining coherence -- but it doesn't actually bring that important point out. It is not quite the simplifying, per se, that is difficult, it is keeping the overall structure or improving it. Maybe that is an overly fine (or pedantic) point, but maybe not . . .

A car with no wheels is not simpler, it's just broken - at least until you can make it float like a hovercraft.

Simplicity is when you get the same quality with less complexity.

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