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Comment by mevile | Hacker News Reader

Pretty much anyone can quit caffeine in a week, easily. Nicotine is not in even in the same ballpark in terms of addictiveness based on my anecdotal experience. There's absolutely no way I am OK with something as addicting as nicotine being marketed to children. Teenagers are children and I'm happy the government is pursuing vaping such as it is.

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> nicotine being marketed to children

I've yet to see anything that I'd actually consider "marketing nicotine to children," besides the ads they show on tv complaining that "the industry" is marketing to children, that is. Those "warning" ads are way more appealing to kids and raise their curiosity in my mind than any actual vape ads I see. Talking about the flavors and showing the kids picking up the pretty packages and oohing and aahing over them...sheesh.

Adults like flavored e-juice to vape, way more than flavorless. I don't think flavoring something can be directly equated to marketing to children. Where are these ads marketing to children that everybody keeps mentioning?

>I've yet to see anything that I'd actually consider "marketing nicotine to children,"

um, you can get vape 'juice' any anything from unflavored to cigar to brownies to blueberry pie...

While making dessert flavored juice might not be specifically aimed towards children, you know LITTLE children and teens are going to be like "hey, I want to puff clouds of dessert too!" unlike cigarettes "hey I want to puff caustic, nasty, nauseating, burning paper!"

If adults and kids both like candy, is candy a kids product?

Many candies are very much intended for children. Bright colours, cartoon characters, etc.

The FDA, several state attorney generals, senators have all moved in the past few years to attempt to outright ban any flavored tobacco products (including menthol) specifically because they provide an easy gateway for children.

The most recent high-profile case I can think of is San Francisco banning the sale of flavored tobacco, including menthol, this summer specifically for this reason.

Your mileage may vary there. I've gone on and off nicotine rather easily. Just nicotine though, not cigarettes, which contain MAOIs that radically increase their addictiveness.

Anyone can quit caffeine forever by not drinking caffeine for a week? I know a lot more people who have quit smoking forever (so far) than people who have quit caffeine.

You can get over the chemical dependency on caffeine in a week to ten days, if you go more-or-less cold turkey and put up with the headaches. The psychological dependency might be trickier.

In my experience the side effects of caffeine withdrawal are much much worse than for nicotine (cigarettes). Both last a week or two.

A slow taper off of caffeine is much more comfortable, even if it does take longer. Can't really speak to the nicotine side.

May I ask what your dosing was? I honestly don't doubt you one bit - but as an ex-25-a-day smoker, a week of endless pacing and sleepless nights and hiding in my cupboard, followed by a week of sleeping and grumbling, and a subsequent year of basically no alcohol (triggering), there's just no comparison to a week of headaches and thirst (caffeine). But, I suppose I do say this as someone with coffee in hand, so maybe staying quit with caffeine has been that much harder...

For caffeine, it’s hard to say, but probably at least a liter a day of Coca Cola or similar. For cigarettes, peak usage of half a pack a day. Quit both cold turkey (many years apart). Quitting soda gave me pretty significant headaches for about a week. Quitting cigarettes had no noticeable side effects other than cravings and some antsiness every hour or so. Note also that I have since relapsed on both, but was cold turkey for at least 6 months.

Quitting coca cola is different from quitting caffeine though. You are quitting sugar along with caffeine.

I definitely didn’t quit sugar, although probably reduced it significantly. I was still drinking juice pretty regularly. I’m pretty sure the headaches were primarily from caffeine withdrawal.

I have dramatically reduced my caffeine dependence in the past by slowly adjusting my morning coffee on an increasing percentage of decaf: 10% first week, 20% second, 30% the third, 50% the fourth. It was completely painless.

What’s the motivation for quitting caffeine? I’d expect a lot more people to quit smoking even though it’s harder because it’s horribly unhealthy, expensive, and increasingly taboo.

Perhaps, but that also sounds remarkably like “I’m not addicted to caffeine because I could quit any time I wanted.”

I mean, that statement is often true. Again, what would be the motivation for quitting?

I quit caffeine mostly because I was drinking a lot of soda and was concerned about the sugar, but I would think that, all else being equal, people would rather not be dependent on caffeine for maintaining their sleep/wake schedule. When people say “I’m a zombie until I have my first cup of coffee,” do you think they mean that in a good way?

> I would think that, all else being equal, people would rather not be dependent on caffeine for maintaining their sleep/wake schedule.

I agree only because caffeine has such a slow half life in the body and it's hard to control withdrawl.

If you had something almost the same as caffeine, that you could use to wake up faster and get tired faster, with the only negative effect being ten minutes of zombie in the morning, that would be great for so many people.

"I could quit any time" and "I don't need to quit because it's not unhealthy" are very different statements.

Though how much evidence would you need for someone being able to quit caffeine? If they abstain for a month, is that enough?

Well, no, that isn’t enough. It’s relatively easy for a cigarette smoker to quit for a month, or even addicts of much harder drugs. It’s the forever part that’s difficult.

You didn't answer the question of how much evidence is enough.

You can only expect someone to disrupt their appetite so much to prove a point. Is it effectively impossible to prove to your satisfaction?

People with sleep problems are often advised to quit caffeine. Many women who are or who expect to become pregnant also quit over concerns it may harm the fetus.

More information on your first sentence in Matthew Walker's Why We Sleep (tl;dr: no caffeine >2pm it's v bad for sleep phases + long half-life).

I'd add mental health/anxiety issues as another reason to avoid it. It can be a fine cognitive enhancer - but caffeine as a crutch will give you a limp.

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