Third-wave antiracism makes sense, but it's a dead end
theatlantic.com
theatlantic.com
Very accurate analysis imho.
Growing up around fundamentalist Christians, I'm pretty tuned into people who use moral posturing to gain status within their social group. The resemblance with the virtue signalling is uncanny.
Modern social progressives do perform analogous shunnings, yes, but these acts are for the explicit purpose of decentralizing power _away_ from groups who have it.
If one agree to the belief that race is the significant force behind social economic status then it will seem obvious that the narrative of white privilege as having that effect.
Like any logic within a religion, it builds upon faith.
We’re for sure in a multi-ethnic society. There’s no question about this. But when a ‘black’ man is elected to the highest office, when ‘black’ people continue to hold institutional power, both in government and universities, the actual practice of racism becomes hard to prove. It becomes ethnocentrism.
The irony of this fact is how so many ‘whites’ (mostly uneducated) know it to be true, and so many ‘blacks’ refuse to believe it, instead calling on the European-American burgousie to feel guilt and dole out pity. There’s this belief that to be ‘black’ means to be cursed. Fuck that, African-Americans have reason to be proud of their accomplishments in this country.
If anything, white guilt is racism. You can’t look someone in the eye when you’re looking down on them.
So we now have not just a racism / sexism morality based on actions and statements, but a religious viewpoint (good / evil), eugenics (because it's all baked into our genes), and caste (separating and ranking various human phenotypes.)
History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes has a similar chord progression.
No, even when using the (profoundly flawed, but not entirely useless) “waves” framework, it's usually described in at least four waves now.
> The struggle to secure voting rights, then workplace rights, and third—roughly—to upend stereotypes.
This is not an accurate summary of the usual description of the first three waves of feminism; first wave feminism is typically associated with the early struggle for legal rights in terms of access to basic political and economic institutions (suffrage, independent property rights, access to work, access to education).
Second-wave feminism is typically associated with a fight for equality within institutions to which women already had access as a result of successes of first-wave feminism (especially education and employment) and recognition of rights addressing areas where women were uniquely situated either inherently or by traditional gender roles (reproductive rights including contraception and abortion, protection against domestic violence and marital rape, etc.) Third-wave feminism is associated not merely with upending stereotypes (that's part of it, but more in the context of recognizing a diversity in the female experience and the challenges of women that feminism should be addressing; intersectionality is probably a better short summary than upending stereotypes.)
> The battle against racism and its effects is often described in a similar three-part timeline, with movements against slavery and segregation, and then—vaguely—the post-civil-rights era.
No, it's not often described that way especially by people in the activist community, who describe themselves as civil rights activists, not add part of some vague post-civil-rights antiracism wave. To the extent that multiple waves are identified in racial justice activism in the US, they tend to be abolition, the immediate post-abolition civil rights movement, and the modern civil rights movement.
> third-wave antiracism may seem parallel to third-wave feminism in moving on to a different form of abuse, psychological rather than institutional.
Third-wave feminism doesn't focus on psychological abuse (though that's an emergent focus of fourth wave feminism, though it does focus on informal social and institutional discrimination (as opposed to legal and other formal social and institutional discrimination.) The author here send to conflate the two concerns.
> But this focus on the psychological has morphed, of late, from a pragmatic mission to change minds into a witch hunt driven by the personal benefits of virtue signaling, obsessed with unconscious and subconscious bias.
No, it hasn't; first, virtue signalling is a social hack targeting members of a movement by those who are not genuinely committed who wish to be seen as part of it. Second, feminist virtue signalling had been around at least as long as the suffrage movement, and continuously evolves to target current tends in feminist thought, ditto with racial justice since at least the immediate post-abolition period; the current level is nothing novel. Third, targeting unconscious and subconscious bias isn't a recent evolution compared to either “third-wave” (by feminism standards) style thought it the second-wave style thought the author misattributes to as characterizing third wave initially (or, a fortiori, the fourth-wave style thought he later claims is the focus of the third wave.) It's classic third-wave feminism (and, if anything, even older within the racial justice movement), because sucks and unconscious vitae at the individual level is a pillar on which informal structural and institutionalized discrimination rests. But, moreover, while it is a concern of modern feminist and racial justice movements, is not the central focus on either a genuine or virtue signalling sense; this is particularly obvious if you look at the marquee hypercurrent racial justice group, BLM. They aren't focussed centrality on vague psychological bias, whether as a witch hunt or any other way; their central focus is material accountability for concrete instances of material injustice.
> The virally popular Stuff White People Like blog of 2010 was a wry self-parody of the cultural mores that had settled in by roughly the late 1990s amidst a certain stripe of educated white people. “Being Offended” was one of the cleverest entries, describing a kind of almost recreational quest to take umbrage on behalf of people other than whites. Already, the satirical tone of this entry dates awkwardly: Many of the people it describes would read it today as disrespectful to the urgency of attesting to one’s white privilege.
The whole point of the original satire “of the cultural mores that had settled in by roughly the late 1990s amidst a certain stripe of educated white people” if that everyone it describes would eat it that way. That's what was being satirized. White knighting isn't a new thing, not yet or suddenly become obligatory in the perception of the wider recital justice community, which is now, more than ever, not defined predominantly by the attitudes of the “educated white people” that are, of try to be by virtue signalling, associated with it.
And then, after all this confused, muddled inaccurate mess of framing, the examples (still generalizations that are far from concrete) he points to are all about efforts targeting institutional acceptance of concrete offensive behavior directed at members of minority communities or institutional endorsement and involvement in racist speech. While there might be valid complaints about these, either genuine or virtue signalling adherence to a movement that has moved on to a phase that has gotten away from dealing with concrete institutional discrimination to focus on un- or sub-conscious bias isn't among the them.
As it progresses from the most abstract background to the more detailed (but still fairly abstract and generalized) complaints, this piece builds a narrative that is both internally inconsistent at frequently misrepresents facts. But it manages to fit a litany of the standard complaints by elite defenders of the status quo about the modern racial justice movement (a perfect blackout of the bingo card is avoided only by the failure to work in the phrase “identity politics”.)
Perhaps the author is genuinely confused enough to believe this incoherent mess, or maybe it's just virtue signalling for a different audience. Whatever it is, it's not a useful or meaningful or even well-thought-out contribution to the discussion of racial politics in modern America.
The majority of what’s being held up as problematic is very much a matter of approach rather than goals, while you seem to be hung up on goals. Or maybe I’m missing something? He doesn’t seem to be anything other than supportive of fighting for the aims you’re discussing, he’s questioning the degree to which moral posturing online along with crude mobs really serves those goals in the long run. I guess it feels like you e cherrypicked a strange and minimal assortment of content to analyze, and it doesn’t seem like it supports your extremely harsh conclusions.
I mean come on. The argument that we need to just have a calm, rational debate over whether some groups of people are just racially inferior is so absurd it deserves to be treated with ostracism and disgust. I’m sorry that these old Ivy League gentlemen are offended by a bit of truth. But this is not about idealized debate, it’s about power, and violence, and transformation, and you’re not going to get that without getting a little mad and making some noise.
It's good to remember that authors of magazine articles don't pick their titles. We've switched to the subtitle above (shortened to fit HN's 80-char limit).
The first paragraph says "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
The second half is an extended plea not to engage in "trashing" on this site.
And I don't think even big companies like Google do. The backlash against drones and that China SE were telling.
I don't have any answers to those problems, and these sorts of articles are interesting as background to what it all is.
I go find some cool people to hang out with, and have fun with them, ignore you, and try to live and enjoy my life instead.
It doesn't matter your background, who your parents were/are/aren't.
Some people are about living in the now, looking forward, and not dwelling on sob stories. All the best people aren't whining about some archeological find that shows that dead people from last century were mean.
People these days really aren't up against a whole lot of boogie men, and there's PLENTY of room to steer clear of the tough guy piece of shit psychos that try to cause harm. Shit was so much worse forty years ago, but hey, now?
Now, it really isn't that bad anymore. And not because of some ultra-vigilant two minute hate, WRT the super villains of millennial politics.
The news is fucking full of shit. You walk the streets, and on a daily basis, the world is almost nothing like the headlines.
Make no mistake, there's some really bad shit going down in certain parts of the world. Drug violence is some of the worst shit ever captured on a cell phone. People being mutilated alive in ways that would make a medieval executioner blush. Sectarian violence is pretty rough stuff too. People captured and decapitated with det cord ( ...slightly more palatable way to die than drug violence to be honest). And throughout it all opiods killing more people than HIV ever did.
And no attention in the news is ever paid to what fans those flames. But endless, endless debates about political bugaboos that will never go away.
So, unless you're solving real problems, that affect real people, right now, today, I've got no time for you.
>The contemporary left’s concern is with the underlying biases that bolster the racism that remains. It seeks, as a way forward, a society not only without racist structures, but without racist thought, which, for one, can foster race-based disparities that eerily parallel those conditioned in the past by overt segregation.
This, as someone who spends a lot of time both in a very liberal college and in lefty online "safe spaces", is an ideology I've never encountered. Leftists generally Subscribe to an ideology that explains material conditions as the force that causes struggle in a society. Those conditions usually being economic structures, but usually include specific things like the power structure of a police force, private ownership of prisons, the "war on drugs", etc.
The author complains heavily about how "SJWs" call people White Supremacist too often, but doesn't give any specific example of this happening and why the label was inappropriate. In fact, nearly every one of the "examples" of leftist speech seems to be your average dismissive "laugh at the cuck cringe complication" quotes attributed without context to nobody in particular:
>The new normal is, “If you don’t like it, cry loudly and then louder, because you’re always right and they’re just bad.”
I don't actually think anybody really thinks this. I've never heard this ideology espoused by anybody, except anti-sjws, as they're sometimes referred to as, who are trying to strawman and discredit someone.
The times I have heard people call people White Supremacist is, for example, when a white person starts arguing about IQ scores, which is an explicitly white supremacist argument, and uncontroversially so unless you're unfamiliar with WHY iq tests are inherently biased, in which case you might not see why the label is appropriate and will only see a lib getting mad for no reason.
I believe the author has simply collected a few instances of college liberals losing their temper on camera and extrapolated that into an entire incoherent worldview without any analysis of what the leftist cucks actually believe.
Additionally, the phrase "virtue signalling" is extremely sloppy. Is there any action done, aside from those done under the privacy of total anonymity that could not be motivationally attributed to wishing the signal virtue? Perhaps I'm virtue signalling for writing this reply. Maybe you're virtue signalling for upvoting it. Maybe the author is virtue signalling for having written the article about virtue signalling. Even if what he says about progressives was true, why would wishing to change the psychology of percieved white racists be "virtue signalling"?
See the term “champagne socialists”. It’s really easy to utilize something like “changing the psychology of racists” for virtue signalling. Or any other stance for that matter.
Taking the stance isn’t at issue, but rather stopping there (having the opinion publicly, but not following through in any meaningful manner).
That they do work does not ensure its meaningful; at a minimum it needs to somewhat justified...by something. Personally, I’ve yet to find a decent argument for deplatforming (it seems to go against every acceptable idealistic political stance; I mean, its fundamentally against freedom of speech, which is an absurd stance to be taking — and afaik, not a stance otherwise taken), which for me implies that not much thinking actually went into the operation as to whether it was something that should be done.
Which is the behavior you’d expect... of a champagne socialist. Calling for big political events, possibly even organizing them, without considering whether this would actually support their cause in any real fashion.. because it doesn’t matter whether or not it does. It just needs to be interpreted as helping.
Its just positioning.
Ofc, this is also the behavior we associate with politicians, but thats another can of worms ;)
The author is a professor at a major university, in a humanities field. As such, he is quite likely to be at least somewhat familiar with the intentions and attitudes of this political group - and while I have not specifically looked at "3rd-wave anti-racism", thought patterns are absolutely a commonly-recurring concern. The burden is on those who take the opposite view to provide evidence to the contrary. In addition, you are using terms like "SJWs" and, most strikingly, "cucks" (a crude and offensive sexual slur that has regrettably entered the present-day political lexicon, roughly comparable to the use of "teabaggers" back in the 2000s), which in fact are not generally found in the article, as if they represented the author's stance. This does not seem to be a case of arguing in good faith.
>Contrast this approach with that of people lionized today who worked within a racism none could disagree was more implacably overt and hostile than today.
This is exactly the issue being raised by the people the author decries. The fact that these issues have become less overt and hostile is part of the problem - we compare current racisms to the more "overt" ones and therefore conclude they have disappeared rather than change form, just as Zizek notes the new forms of dominance in the workplace are no longer to command you to work, but for your boss to befriend you such that you feel bad for not working. I think the superego is at work in racism and in the workplace.
>fostering social justice requires fashioning oneself as vulnerable, injured, and/or broken by things
Does this apply to the large body of academics in the social and philosophical sciences who have usually maintained a large degree of professionalism, or is the author only criticising young people who are, like any other generation, interested in drawing attention to themselves, in addition to whatever legitimate grievances they might have?
>She believed that the speech rights blacks had fought for so hard must be extended to people she found noxious, including on issues as personal to her as race.
This is one example where the author cites a black person to maintain the notion that if a civil rights leader has done something correctly, then it must have been right. Could it not, on the contrary, be argued that modern times have called for a change in tactics and a renewed set of problems, even if the author had previously suggested that they are less overt, could it not also be that they are different in kind not merely degree? Is the author aware of the work of Herbert Marcuse in his criticism of J.S. Mill's idea of speech and tolerance, or indeed the left criticism of human rights? I'd actually suppose that if the people he decries are putting forward strong anti-racist arguments then he should also be willing to consider the critique of ideology which drives them.
He is thus either not willing to look deeply into what he criticises (i.e he will focus on the appearance of "woke" college students rather than the essence of why they do what they do psyhcoanalytically or philosophically) or he is unable to look that deep for one reason or another.
The author does not deny that this is a challenge for 3rd-wave anti-racists - indeed, this is a major point of the article itself. However, it seems unhelpful to call it a "problem", with no further qualification, as if the 1st and 2nd "wave" were not contending with far worse problems on the racism front. To think otherwise begs the question of why anyone should even bother to address racism at all, when racism itself can never disappear but merely "change form" into something else, ready for the (n+1)-th wave to address in turn.
He agrees that racism has changed form and supports the goals of 3rd wave anti-racists, and understands why they do what they do.
He just argues that the tactics they use are self-defeating.
The issue here is very simple; the author sees the tactics as self defeating because he doesn't agree with them, or because they don't want to accomplish his own aims - because they challenge the liberal orthodoxy, which he defends by mentioning several policies. To him, only policies can be challenged, and anything other than a policy doesn't count for institutional racism at all. The only exceptions he's willing to make are when racism is so bad that liberal approaches don't work so well - in Dr. King's instance. But I would contend that racism (and indeed sexism and classism) manifests itself in a much more overt and discreet way, but this only makes them categorically worse, just as the workplace example I used.
I'm not entirely convinced he does understand what they want to do, having opted to go for a standard "they just want to control what we think" line rather than addressing their issues with the process as it actually stands. It's a bizarre article which hasn't looked into the history of the movement as it exists, and what its strengths and shortcomings are.
No doubt, any amount of racism is more than what is ideal. But to criticize the article for, "implying that the racism of today is less pernicious, and leaving no scope for it to be equally as pernicious" strikes me as non-sensical, since the overwhelming majority of people would agree that it is less pernicious.
In some sense, it's trivially true that legal equality means things are "better", but there's plenty of empirical evidence that suggests that material gains won by the civil rights movement have regressed significantly.
For example, in many places, schools are more segregated than they've been since the 60s [1]. Further, the housing crisis erased gains in black wealth back to levels of the 80s and 90s [2].
This is too large a subject to get into in an HN comment, but if you're curious, I'd highly suggest reading Michelle Alexander's excellent book The New Jim Crow[3], which focuses particularly on incarceration.
[1]: https://www.vox.com/2018/3/5/17080218/school-segregation-get... [2]: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2017... [3]: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/ctp/The_New_Jim_Crow.pdf
He says nothing about the tactics not accomplishing his own aims, or that only policies can be challenged.
He simply criticizes the way the attempt to change people’s psychology is being done as resembling a religious structure.
Attempting to change people’s attitudes and psychology is fine.
It’s also obvious that there is more than one approach to doing it, and that it’s likely that many approaches to a problem like this will be self defeating.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11844625
But you could surely just describe it differently, like saying there's just "a few instances of college liberals losing their temper on camera", so where are the examples, right?
> I don't actually think anybody really thinks this. I've never heard this ideology espoused by anybody
It is acted on, not espoused, it's probably incompatible with consciously being aware of it. What is said is usually some variation of "look what you made me do". (no, not in those literal words, but in meaning)
Not that I would ever apply that all to "the left", or "progressives". But there's a lot of people calling themselves that, while being anything but. They just smell the power that a cult of victimhood can convey, and they are cruel and have double standards. The proof is in the pudding -- in what they do, how they reason, not in what is written on the flag. And it hurts those who are actually true to the causes which others just espouse, to use as tools to get to peck on others.
> Additionally, the phrase "virtue signalling" is extremely sloppy.
I agree very much with that. But so is "a few instances of college liberals losing their temper on camera". Might as well reply to your comment with "oh, it just seems like you entered a bunch of characters in a textarea and pressed the reply button". Technically true, totally useless for communication.
No it isn't. IQ scores are a perfectly legitimate thing to debate, and whites don't top that scale, Jews do, followed by Asians. Calling this a white supremacist argument is itself racist. And no it is not uncontroversially accepted; that you think it is shows you're in an ideological bubble and have closed your mind to the fact that other intelligent people disagree with you and it's not because they're uninformed. In fact IQ tests still stand as the single strongest predictor in all of psychology, it is the gold standard of indicators. It is those who doubt IQ who are in the minority and who are apparently uninformed.
> The author complains heavily about how "SJWs" call people White Supremacist too often
They do, as you've just proven, the term is thrown around constantly for completely invalid reasons exactly as you have just done. You've just proven the authors point.
description: I was just threatened by a cop to get pulled out of my car in the middle of nowhere, I could have been the next victim, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAJvNpFVAz0
Mind blowing. She doesn't call him white supremacist, but I'd say this a very fine example anyway. Not depictured in the video is the reactions to her claim, before the bodycam video showed it to be a lie, I can only imagine.
That's using actual victims and actual fear to be a reckless driver and a pseudo-victim at worst, the most charitable interpretation I can come up with, is that this women was so addicted to Facebook and saw so much stuff about cops killing black people, that she didn't even see or hear the actual cop, and honestly believed in her completely deformed version of the situation.
I honestly don't know what would be worse, but it points to one of two wider issues either way.
edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqqefsfC14&t=4m41s
> "Oh, you're from South Carolina! You are a little whitey, you supremacist"
as I said: too many cruel, heartless people with double standards, smelling pathetically small amounts of power and using it for pathetically petty things.
Same video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqqefsfC14&t=6m23s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbqqefsfC14&t=8m32s
Incredible. And this goes hand in hand with "deplatforming"? The US is breeding itself a whole lot of brownshirts in spe, how can you not see that? The weaker an individual is, the more cruel they will be in a mob, this explains what we see more than anything. I for one won't give the noobs trying to import that into Germany even one inch, no pasaran, and God help the US.