Comment by jnoring | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jnoring | Hacker News Reader

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Author here. Diplomacy isn't my strong suit, and I don't care if you think me rude.

I'm not saying consumers shouldn't have choice. That isn't at all what I'm saying. What I am saying is: Chrome didn't arrive at its market share by some corporate scheme to enforce usage by vertical tying. Chrome arrived at that market share by making a great piece of software that most consumers like and are happy with.

And I take particular offense to a browser that is bundled with an operating system by default--as opposed to one a user has to go out of their way to download--as being some panacea to Google. Edge and Safari likely have meaningful market share for no reason beyond: they ship with Windows and macOS respectively.

Chrome certainly ships as the default on Chromebooks and Android, but you'd be remiss to ignore that Chrome is the most used browser on Windows, and second most common on macOS. Those are consumers making a choice. Yet so many people in programming and tech circles don't stop to ask themselves why consumers are opting for Chrome.

So maybe the final line in my post seems harsh, but here's the reality: Edge is only a thing because it ships with Windows. Beyond that I see no technical reason to favor it over Chrome or even Firefox. On Windows, consumers have already spoken: they like Chrome. Lastly, Edge is a pretty questionable argument in favor of "consumer choice", given it represents a choice no consumer actually made beyond "default browser in Windows."

IMHO, Chrome arrived at such a market share mostly through (i) ubiquitously ad campaigns (subways, buses, on the web, ...); (ii) an strong push towards the users (it's quite easy when your editor is in charge of what is basically the homepage of the internet for most people); (iii) an aggressive bundling strategy with dozens of other programs (JVM, freewares, ...).

While I share your disgust for IE and its successor Edge, you are incorrect about one thing.

The Chrome install base on Windows is not entirely due to user choice. Chrome is/was bundled and selected for installation by default with many other software products, including Adobe Reader, CCleaner, and Avast antivirus.

My dads Dell came with Edge, Firefox and Chrome installed. I wonder how many other vendors are including multiple browsers? Surely if you purchase Win10 on its own you only get Edge, but I don't think most people are buying Win10 on its own compared to purchasing a PC that has it installed already.

all computers should do that. and then have an icon called internet which spawns randomly either of the three (session based) also you need a standard to share favicons.

Fair counterargument. Thanks. I'd still contend it's different from something being bundled with an operating system (as in, a user or PC manufacturer must go out of their way to change it) and something that's tied to another piece of software that a consumer downloads.

But I think your point stands.

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion on HN, but

I think this is a good case study of why some companies doesn't allow its employees to blog about their company or work without going through some sort of process.

I don't work for google.

Arh. I am Sorry. Somehow I assume / read those commit were to YouTube itself.

Edit: It still reads to me as if you were the one who committed the div tag on youtube. I am not sure if I am the only one.

No technical reason to use Edge over Chrome? Are being purposely ignorant? Edge has good pdf editing abilities - at least in the Surface line. When google can stop eating your ram and battery I'll consider it over Edge. Unfortunately MS is throwing in the towel.

Safari is also a good browser. I don't need justifications here.

I get what you're saying and I agree. If consumers want Chrome, they should be free to use it and what MSFT is doing with its pre-configured browser/search engine settings is approaching anti-competitive behaviour.

However, if everyone adapts a single solution (WebKit/V8) then the web will just gravitate towards that and neglect standards and other engines, making it harder for consumers to use those.

The quintessence here is: People shouldn't just look at the raw performace (or quality or whatever) of a product, they should also consider the implications of using it. If almost everyone's using one particular implementation of a standard, then the other implementations will be extinct and users of those other implementations will be forced to use that most prominent one, eliminating their choice.

I'd recommend you read up on "Windows Refund Day". It kinda fits here. Here's a good video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9j-Ywjmbk

> I don’t care if you think me rude

You should care. Part of the implicit criticism in the original post by the intern is that Google is so arrogant in its browser’s dominance that it breaks the web and doesn’t give a shit if anyone complains about it. The tone of your article is certainly doing nothing to help that impression.

> Part of the implicit criticism in the original post by the intern is that Google is so arrogant in its browser’s dominance that it breaks the web and doesn’t give a shit if anyone complains about it. The tone of your article is certainly doing nothing to help that impression.

Is there anything that a person who doesn't work at Google (like the author) can do to help that impression? Is there any reason why anybody who doesn't work at Google should even worry about helping that impression?

...except in this instance, they didn't break the web. That's what irks me about this attitude you hold, which I think is actually what's rude.

This notion that some intern posts an unfounded assertion that attributes malicious behavior to Google, that has multiple other plausible explanations? That is rude--attributing malice where it is wholly unjustified.

So am I remorseful for my tone? Fuck no. My truth standards are such that I'm not about to settle for other people's BS if there isn't evidence to support it. Speculation isn't evidence.

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