Addicted to vaped nicotine, teenagers have no clear path to quitting
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
I go through great lengths to insure that I don't become dependent on either, though I enjoy both. Caffeine really does reduce fatigue, and nicotine 'dials you in' when you're focusing. Wish I knew what the chemicals themselves were doing to me without the complications from the delivery systems.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
If you look at Figure 1, the e-cig users and never smokers are pretty similar.
I'm not convinced that vaping is a bigger problem or that it's harder to quit vaping than smoking. How is reducing the frequency of vaping, or choosing liquids with lower nicotine content, not possible with vaping, but reducing the number of cigarettes you smoke per day is?
The devices themselves have varying liquid capacity and vaporizing volume settings--you can't easily track how many pulls until the device is empty.
Battery limitations also confuse the amount "left" in the device.
Cigarette units are simpler, in part because there aren't that many brands, and even if you roll your own, you probably have a pretty good idea of how much tobacco you're putting in the cigarettes.
But especially with boxes of cigarettes, you can easily count them down and keep track knowing each starts with 20.
I'd also suggest that cigarette use is far more difficult to hide than vaporizer use. Cigarettes smell terrible compared to most vape clouds. The smell and risk of iscovery could be important elements of cigarettes that might make them easier for teenagers to quit.
Finally, vaping comes in just about every flavor imaginable. Much more diverse in taste offering than cigarettes with the same high. It is really a much more refined narcotic delivery than cigarettes and so it aught to be harder for anyone to quit.
Also: most vapes have a trigger counter.
People do switch juices all the time so it is common to have different bottles of varying quantities sitting around.
If you're just vaping with whatever you can get your hands on and conceal as presumably teens are, I doubt they have a nice repeatable setup with a trigger counter.
But regardless, there are none of these confusing points in branded cigarettes. One cigarette is one cigarette end of story.
So what else is in vaping liquid?
"Nicotine as a useful stimulant" (gwern.net)
The e-cig helped, but the real motivator is that I wanted to run and play soccer more effectively. Vaping was just a tool that kept me away from cigarettes.
Vaped nicotine feels way less addicting. I think its got something to do with other "active agents" and additives missing compared to cigarettes.
Edit: For example, studies have shown cigarette smoke to inhibit MAO in the brain due to some agent besides nicotine, which vaping very probably doesnt.
In the UK, a lot of vape liquid is sold with no nicotine. You state your preferred level of nicotine, and someone behind the desk tells you how much nicotine to purchase to get that level of nicotine in the vape.
You can vape as is, with no nicotine, but what's the point unless you're quitting?
A tiny amount of nicotine is enough to maintain or reactivate your physical addiction. This is why the phrase “once a smoker always a smoker”, because for people like me it doesn’t matter that we haven’t smoked in 4 years, a single cigarette will bring back that addiction with a vengeance.
A minority of people supposedly have an easier time quitting. Hence the joke: Quitting is easy, I did it dozens of times already.
Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances. AFAIK it ranks higher than drugs like cocaine.
The best strategy is quitting cold turkey, but the withdrawal symptoms can be severe. For people that failed that, there is some medication available that can interfere with the brain receptors to reduce the cravings.
This article is an example of a bit of our society's insanity.
Quitting nicotine is difficult. But people who want to quit work at it and achieve their goals. Throw the shit away, talk to your family for support, don't buy more.
It's insane to imply that we need some sort of product or medical supervision to make a decision and work at something like quitting nicotine.
Many people die from issues related to their habits and addictions. But I do not think it makes sense demand a product or medical intervention as a solution to all of them.
Many harmful habits or addictions are best tackled with planning, decision making, and human effort. I think a good litmus test for whether something can reasonably require medical intervention is the danger to your health from quitting.
It makes sense to intervene for someone going through alcohol withdrawal, because they can be injured from it. It does not make sense for e-cigs, because if someone actually desires to stop, there isn't anything threatening them except their habit.
What would the outcome be, if there was a product to reduce the effort of quitting nicotine? It would simply improve nicotine itself, by removing the biggest reason to avoid it. We'd end up with people habitually taking two drugs, nicotine and the 'quitting drug'.
So, I have tried patches before, and I got relentlessly addicted to them. I wore them for something like two years. I have ADHD and take stimulant medication for it, and stimulants are pretty famous for causing tobacco users to smoke a lot more.
After I got used to the e-cigarettes/vaping, I don't want to go back. I decline offers from friends for real cigarettes when out drinking at bars/etc., and I have had a pack of cigarettes in my house for about 6 weeks now without smoking a single one. The taste and smell just isn't good anymore now that I'm off the "analogs".
It's hard to know how much nicotine I'm ingesting, though. Smoking real cigarettes now gives me a strong nicotine buzz that I don't get from vaping, like that infamous light-headed feeling beginner smokers get. I suspect this is due to vaping delivery being less efficient and more gradually throughout the day, but you would think it would be easier to compare, say, a JUUL to a standard cigarette.
The other problem I've had with my JUUL is leaking. The last few pods I have vaped, have all leaked considerable amounts of liquid - sometimes on my lips, sometimes on the sides of the pod and into the chamber. I'm not sure if this is an issue with my device or QC. I clean the device regularly with a Q-Tip. Obviously, leaked liquid is not ingested or vaped, so that's lost nicotine and can't be counted. The same applies to any liquid left in a JUUL pod when it is thrown away. I've started throwing away pods before they are completely empty, because its not working as well. Air bubbles are also a problem and lead to poor performance.
Just my experience, I'm sure I'll get harassed for this since I'm discussing vape usage, but addictions are addictions, and not everyone wants to quit.
Yep, of course it is, otherwise nicotine patches wouldn't work. It's also absorbed through mucous membranes in the mouth (see dip, chew, snus, etc).
[0] http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-d... [1]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/drowning
That's one segment of the market. The store I go to mixes everything on site, so I can choose my nicotine level. You can get anywhere from 0mg to 24mg in 3mg increments. When I was quitting smoking, I'd say 18-21 was the closest to a "cigarette" level.
Today I typically vape 6mg, simply because I enjoy the benefits of nicotine and see no immediate reason to quit. I have also helped many stores get setup in my county and most of the pre-made vape juice for the "mod" market that they sell comes in either 0mg or 6mg concentrations; and from my shopping at the wholesaler, this seems to be the vast majority of the market overall and outside of products like JUUL.
That's not true, from my personal experience cigarettes are MUCH more powerful.
Also I don't understand why everyone so obsessed about nicotine as a main active agent. It looks relatively harmless when comparing with smoke, carbon monoxide, tar in cigarettes and strange substances in e-cigarette vapor (not including nicotine).
Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known. Cigarettes may indeed be more powerful, but people are obsessed with nicotine because it’s addictive qualities are so well known.
What I want to say: we should not fight nicotine, we should fight smoking/vaping.
"If you ever touch drugs or a drop of alcohol I will take your life with my own two hands." He stared into my eyes and said that with a ferocity I didn't dare challenge (if I recall I was in the 10-11 range).
I didn't touch a thing until college and despite a brief "binge" phase then, I still don't do much of anything save for the rare occasion (in my 30's now).
In short: don't think so helplessly. You can have a serious impact on your kids avoidance of negative stuff. Especially if you explain "why."
This is mental abuse.
"Addicted to fortnight, kids have no clear path to quitting".
"Addicted to social media, millennials have no clear path to mental health".
We've spent 100 years creating companies that grow because addiction works. It's gonna take a concerted, societal effort to disconnect addiction and incentives.
Edit: Not sure why the downvotes. There is a trend of putting the blame for N things on external factors, e.g "he is in debt because of all those credit card advertisements". For Americans, it might seem like corporations are the cause of many such ills, but there are societies where e.g aggressive advertisements which are common in the US are non-existent, and people still get in debt, eat badly or drink too many sugary drinks.
Nicotine is fantastic, like caffeine and alcohol, running or weightlifting. Sometimes you have other priorities and you give up something pleasant because it has bad consequences.
Vaping is nicer and safer than smoking, which I would not recommend anyone start, for the wretched smell alone never mind the health effects. If I ever feel like nicotine again I’ll buy a vape again.
Are you classifying ~525,000 people as being from the "bottom of society"? What counts as the "bottom of society"?
I think the anecdotal evidence and opinions you are presenting as fact throughout this thread are earning you downvotes.
[0]: https://www.ssb.no/en/royk [1]: https://tobaccoatlas.org/country/norway/
> Samtidig er det vist at relativ fattigdom øker kronisk stress, som igjen fører til mer røyking.
Translation: At the same time, it is shown that relative poverty increases chronic stress, which in turn leads to more smoking. (I thought this was a pretty well-known fact).
[1] https://www.ssb.no/statbank/table/05307/chartViewLine/
[2] https://www.ssb.no/helse/artikler-og-publikasjoner/fire-av-f...
[3] https://www.fhi.no/ml/royking/hvorfor-har-roykevanene-endret...
It's interesting to see those additional statistics.
Wow. What?
Minor point, but nearly every flavor of eliquid I've ever seen comes in a 0mg variant. Granted, none of the gas station pod systems have that.
More importantly: there is no way in hell you are vaping a Juul and just think its flavored vapor. I have not once seen someone take a hit on a Juul for the first time and not have a small coughing fit. Unless you inherited an impossibly massive genetic nicotine tolerance, the first few times you hit a Juul you're basically going to fly. I've seen one person puke. Having a small brown-out for a second would not be unheard of. Its very strong. Its made for adult smokers who have been smoking for years and want to quit. Its not even that tasty compared to the other less strong brands; nicotine is straight up disgusting, and only gets more disgusting as the concentration grows.
I don't believe for a second that kids were genuinely self-reporting that they had no idea, unless they were actually vaping something more like 3mg/ml juice from a normal vape. That, I could see. But a 50mg/ml Juul, absolutely not. That's like saying you drank a shot of vodka and had no idea it wasn't water.
I agree on the coughing, but from a straight-up nicotine delivery standpoint, cigarettes seem more pronounced for me.
Note: the effects appear permanent, and you don't have to continue taking the medication after the first round.
Edit: I'm curious why this was downvoted, I'm simply offering information that I know has helped others in this very situation.
No idea about the down votes; yours is a very reasonable suggestion.
I had a few incidents with caffeine/energy drinks, but they were arguably a less harmful and definitely cheaper habit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Overdose
Then you have stuff like this... https://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/buzzaire.shtml
Scroll to the bottom of the page or click 'Buy Now.'
- Cardiovascular events
- Seizures
- Panic attacks
- Psychotic episodes
These are all exceptional, but it's not that difficult to get to the associated dose range, particularly if you have some preexisting vulnerability that lowers the threshold for one or more of them. Since sensitivities vary in general it's hard to nail down any specific number, but the order of magnitude is around a pot of coffee or a six-pack of one of the more potent energy drinks.
I don't see how a delivery mechanism is any different except perhaps poorly designed regulation and not bringing down the wrath of god upon them immediately for blatantly violating tobacco advertising laws - I remember far too many radio commercials that weren't even trying to hide it - as 'a smoking cessation commercial that spends 75% of the time talking about the satisfaction and telling them they can use it anywhere'.
Also, if Nicotine is the only reason people are addicted to cigarettes, why doesn't something like nicorette see just as much abuse? Delivery mechanism. Cigarette/Vape users are mentally addicted just as much to the routine and throat hit as they are to the chemical. I'd actually argue more-so.
Look at France https://thinkprogress.org/french-high-school-students-encour...
> In one of the strangest debates that’s resulted from the spate of shootings and bombings across Paris last November, French school administrators are weighing the dangers of teen smoking against the threat of potential terrorist attacks.
Now the issue is that you can constantly increase the strength of the nicotine concentration in your own vape.
The problem with cigarettes is that you have to buy 20 of them at a time and they're all full-length which makes reducing your intake harder as an addict.
It seems like a dangerous gateway for non-smokers to get hooked but I do still think it can help smokers taper off. I haven't smoked (or vaped) in two years after tapering down my intake and quitting.
I agree, think Vaping for existing smokers is a great idea. Still gives them the psychological feeling of holding and breathing in vapor, but doesn't have the harsh chemicals to go along with it, aside from the Nicotine for which you control the dosage.