Hate Speech on Patreon | Hacker News Reader

Hate Speech on Patreon

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30 pointsh-21 comments

> Some people worry that we are reviewing content not posted on Patreon. As a funding platform, we don’t host much content, but we help fund creations across the internet. As a result, we review creations posted on other platforms that are funded through Patreon.

So if I want to get someone suspended, I dig through their history, find an instance where they used a word ten years ago that has now become "hate speech", create my own Patreon, and post their comments in my Patreon?

Also in an interview a year ago [1], Patreon's CEO explicitely promised they would not do what they just did.

But in this case they are characterising as hate speech the simple use of slang, even when there is no hateful intention. This is just the political correctness ayatollahs becoming over-zealous, which I find hard to justify and certainly won't support with my money.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw

I think this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. This sort of thing has been happening for a while. I recall a story where someone's account somewhere was closed because Visa or MasterCard (credit card company!) complained about what they said online.

Financial companies have too much power. They always had. But right now they started exercising it in a way that is very worrisome.

Banks can close your account for no reason.

PayPal can close your account for no reason.

Visa or MasterCard can stop doing business with you for no reason.

And what are you going to do then? There's a global "war on cash". Anything beyond few hundred $ is hard to get. Try to deposit it in a bank and they'll ask you million questions about where it's from and what are you going to use it for. Try to withdraw it and you'll raise some flags.

Maybe cryptocurrencies will have some real-world value after all!

I find I change my language depending on my audience. Sargon was addressing the alt-right in an interview and using their own racist and sexist language against them, to insult them. It doesn't seem like he was attacking the black community or the gay community.

I agree. I found the livestream that Patreon transcribed in the article[1]. From what I can tell, the context is that he is responding to an alt-right troll commenting in the chat.

He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll and criticising them for being so disrespectful. From his mocking tone, I did not get the impression that he condoned their prejudice.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74llFWdeKNM&feature=youtu.be...

> He appears to be throwing the racially-charged language back at the troll

He seems to be using the N word specifically as a pejorative because they're annoying him. (And then uses "faggot" also as a pejorative because why not?)

"White people are meant to be polite and respect each other", combined with the use of the N word towards the commentators, is fairly racially charged, no?

Sargon claims he is using the word in the way described in this stand up comedy routine where Chris Rock (a black person) talks about the difference between 'Black people and niggers' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

Sargon said something like he was denigrating the 'alt right / nazi trolls' for behaving the way the 'nazis' claim the people they hate behave in.

> Sargon claims

Well, of course he does. He'd be stupid not to. But it's very easy to say "ONLY JOKING" whenever you get called on your offensive bullshit that you originally intended.

Yes didn't he say he meant to cause offense? Using that word (or any word) to offend non blacks does not somehow cause it to grow tentacles and attack every black person alive. Context and intent matters and I don't think you or anyone else gets to make that call on "hidden motives" or effects beyond what is stated on record.

> I don't think you or anyone else gets to make that call on "hidden motives" or effects beyond what is stated on record.

Of course we do. Subtext, hidden meanings, coded language, dogwhistling, etc. are all valid things that people can discern in others' speech.

Chris Rock regrets that bit exactly because it has given cover to bigots to use the n word in this way.

Yes, everything he said was racially charged and confrontational. But that doesn't necessarily make it hate speech.

Let's assume for a moment that the target of these pejoratives was an alt-right troll who directed those exact slurs at Sargon of Akkad. Let's say they made it obvious they were homophobic white supremacists by attacking Sargon's mixed heritage as 'racial impurity'.

When I steelman Sargon's emotional response, what I get is: "don't you alt-right trolls realise that you behave exactly the same way as you claim the [nasty black people] do? You are not living up to the false standard you have set for the polite and respectful white 'master' race, so your claim to superiority amazes me. If you are going to behave like the [nasty black people] and [nasty gay people] you despise so much, then don't expect me to bother wasting my time debating you."

Do you find this interpretation implausible for some reason? Can anyone offer a better one?

> Let's assume for a moment that the target of these pejoratives was an alt-right troll

Do we know that it was?

> Do you find this interpretation implausible for some reason?

I do but that's because, taking all the interactions I've had with his output into account, I'm not given to charitable interpretations of his intentions.

> Can anyone offer a better one?

Yes, he's happy to use casual racism and homophobia until someone calls him out on it then he backtracks to claim it's satirical. But what you really mean here is "can anyone offer a better one that I agree with" and I suspect the answer there is no.

Sorry mate, your assumptions on what I "really mean" are incorrect. I was looking to promote divergent thinking to see what other interpretations were out there. Everyone can have a different subjective opinion on which is best and whether I agree or not is beside the point. Not every conversation has to be a debate, you know?

> he's happy to use casual racism and homophobia until someone calls him out on it

I don't listen to this fellow often because I find the sound of his voice irritating and I don't like how he cherry-picks evidence to support his views on UK politics. But none of the limited output I have consumed contained any casual racism. Can anyone link to any other examples that demonstrate this?

Man, I read some of the comments on that article it makes it seem like patreaon made a mistake. Although, it's just internet comments, but the fact patreaon has posted about it themselves makes me go hmm...

Not sure of the whole story, but when a company makes a response like that it screams damage control to me. The comments the article did highlight do seem pretty blunt, but for a company to respond openly like this makes it seem like there is more to it than I understand.

I don't have any context for Patreon's move here. Does anyone know the back story? What the guy said sounds douchey, dimwitted and racist...

But here's another case for decentralization of monetization. I don't care whether someone says something offensive or not...if Bob wants to donate money to Alice, that's their right. They shouldn't have to go through Patreon or PayPal or any other centralized service. And Alice shouldn't have to fear getting on some PC movement's bad side.

He is an infamous provocateur. I'm pretty sure this is the real reason why he was banned:

https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/27/15880582/anita-sa...

Attending a con doesn't strike me as that provocative, honestly. (I do agree that he's kind of a dick, don't get me wrong. Just not in that particular incident so much).

The irony is that if you use Patreon's search functionality to search for slurs and other hate speech you will find plenty more blatant and obvious instances on their own platform.

People are increasingly withdrawing from Patreon. Earlier Sexy Cyborg was forced off by Vice [1] (they're now trying to push her off SubscribeStar[2]), but very recently people like Jordan Peterson, Quillette, and others are moving away and setting up their own crowdfunding platform [3].

And I fully agree that a crowdfunding platform should not be involved with 'de-platforming'.

[1] https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETt5JzufY4&t=0s&list=LLcD8F...

[3] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/jordan-peterson-says-hell...

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