Comment by alehul | Hacker News Reader

Comment by alehul | Hacker News Reader

When I was younger, maybe five years ago or so, I was living in Boston and I'd consistently see a pack of Chinese protestors outside the public library at Copley (very popular area) holding up signs, looking to gain attention for this very issue. They spoke to me as best as they could, handed me a pamphlet with hard-to-parse English but nonetheless gruesome descriptions, and asked for my signature along with any other help I could offer.

I was pretty skeptical that this story was as one-sided as they (along with any other protestor/activist) would represent it to be. I remember wondering what I was really signing a petition for, and hesitation in doing so.

This report fills me with regret for not feeling more empathy, as I must imagine they knew people or knew of people who this had happened to, in order to sit out there all day, so consistently. I haven't seen any of the protestors in years, despite their previous frequency-- I hope they're all well, as are their families.

Has anyone else seen this in other cities, or had other experiences with these folks in Boston?

I regularly go to a restaurant run by some Falun Gong refugees, and I've spent a fair bit of time, while waiting, perusing their pamphlets and books. To be honest, my feeling has been exactly the same as yours - while, from my very first interaction, I was aware that Falun Gong were persecuted in China, and while I don't really have a rosy picture of what that entails, their political writing and pampletting is just really awfully put together, especially for a western audience. They're full of gruesome paintings of torture that, you know, are paintings, so come across as melodramatic - even when you're pretty sure that torture is part and parcel of persecution, and you find it hard to imagine the chinese state _not_ torturing at least some Falun Gong. That's kind of what happens with all their material. You start looking at the people handing it out, and it's pretty obvious they've had a very hard time at the hands of the Chinese state, but then after reading it, you feel less convinced than if they'd handed you nothing at all.

I'm also always struck by the culture gap when Falun Gong tries to communicate to western audiences. The main slogan that I've seen on banners at their protests: "Falun Dafa Is Good".

This made me think of nothing so much as the "Log Song" from Ren and Stimpy:

It's log, it's log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood. / It's log, it's log, it's better than bad — it's good!

Never thought I'd see a Ren & Stimpy reference on HN.

In my city in NZ, they like to do their tai-chi looking stuff in a park beside the main avenue of travel from the airport, with big banners about the Falun Dafa and Friends Association, but most of the banners are filled with hanzi - which makes me wonder who they're preaching to - Kiwis, or Chinese migrants?

FLG runs a propaganda machine in English, you’d have to read their Chinese pamphlets to see the crazy stuff. If you do more research, it’s the scientology of China, not exactly the stuff of credibility. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

I lived down the road from the Chinese consulate in Houston, it being along my walk from home to the grocery story. I would see a decent-sized protest once or twice a month. One was always Tibet-related, the other would vary, but at recall least once seeing something along the lines of what you describe.

Had this experience while growing in NYC, near chinatown and the flushing area. It's not that I didn't believe them, I simply found their information to be ridiculous and theres no way the chinese government actually engages in that kind of behavior. Oh boy, was I wrong.

The behaviour of these guys you observed is already implying something: They are a little bit special. If you have a few Chinese friends, ask them if they know about "独运轮". Ask a few, preferablly with no strong political opinions. The guys you met belong to "轮", the last group of the 3.

Together with other 2 groups, "轮" unintentionally built support to current Chinese govenment among oversea Chinese especially young students. If you happened to have chance to meet many oversea Chinese, you can test if it's valid.

This sounds interesting, but doesn't help understand what you're trying to explain. At least not right now, at my computer. Are there any written explanations you could point us to?

edit: Google translates those three characters as "exclusive wheel"... the mystery continues

I don't know what point the parent is trying to make either, but the three characters mean:

独 "dú", "independence" - refers to independence movements in Taiwan, Xinjiang (Uighurs) and Tibet

运 "yùn", "movement" - refers to the "minyun" democracy movement in China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_democracy_movement)

轮 "lún", "wheel" - refers to Falun Gong

So basically, the major movements and organizations that the Chinese government opposes. China attempts to quell independence efforts in these three regions, puts down and censors information about democracy (see e.g. Tiananmen, 1989), and suppresses the Falun Gong cult/movement.

I can guarantee you many Chinese protestors you can see in US are protesting for political asylum. For them, protesting for is only a way to green card. Almost every Chinese Uber driver I met in SF are under political asylum

>>Almost every Chinese Uber driver I met in SF are under political asylum

USA hands asylum like candy (overworked courts?) but honestly, if 5% of what we read is true, the Chinese deserve it.

That makes a lot of sense. I always wondered what they considered the point of it to be, given that China doesn't care much about the West's opinion of them anyway.

I recently read a non-fiction book, Patriot Number One about this. The main subject of the story pretty clearly deserved asylum but it goes into detail about how people who weren't really persecuted go about getting asylum as well. Really interesting story about small-town Chinese politics and different ways people immigrate.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35575186-patriot-number-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong

The book "God Is Red" by Liao Yiwu is a great book that deals with religious persecution in China.

Edited to add: By a man that is better known for his writing on political persecution, IIRC. However, this is the only book I've read and can personally recommend.

Buenos Aires is packed with these protests. I had the same skepticism you had, but my main obstacle is that its such a distant reality that is hardly meaningful to act on.

That's very true, and I had the same thought.

With that in mind, what do you think is their end goal? Is it just out of desperation they create petitions and such? It seems clear that China doesn't care much about the West's disapproval.

At a minimum, they want the world to know what is going on.

I guess that if the international community where to look into it and say something publicly, it's better than nothing.

I've seen them in Hong Kong, Melbourne Australia, Wellington New Zealand, and Auckland New Zealand :(

They're at Parliament Hill in Ottawa very regularly.

I've seen them at Folkemødet 2018 on the Danish island Bornholm in the Baltic Sea.

I've seen them multiple times in London's ChinaTown. Same skepticism

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