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Comment by rhodysurf | Hacker News Reader

William Finnegan is the best surf writer in the world probably and this is the best article on the surf ranch so far. As an ocean engineer it’s a pretty awesome spectacle and a wonder of a system.

But it totally glosses over the environmental impact and the hypocrisy of the entire thing. Surfers like Kelly Slater and Steph Gilmore are huge environmental advocates, yet the pool uses and absolutely obscene amount of electricity and water every day (the water usage is worse, using up to 300,000 gallons a day!!!) and everyone is being flown there on private jets.

It’s also just localism all over again, except now it’s just straight up money that keep you out of the club instead of a more abstract idea of being a local.

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The water is recycled...due to the nature of the water in the Central Valley and its intended use, they can't just pump up the water from the ground all the time. The water needs to be treated to remove contaminants, then is constantly recycled to prevent algae growth.

The pool does use a ton of water when it gets (re)filled, but that's only a few times a year. Filling the entire pool uses about the same amount of water as the average California golf course uses in one day...

It’s also just localism all over again, except now it’s just straight up money that keep you out of the club instead of a more abstract idea of being a local.

The Surf Ranch is a high-end/test pool, and they've been pretty open about that.

Source: Got to visit the wave pool and talk to the employees during the Surf Ranch Pro in September.

EDIT: Follow-up. For point of comparison, while 300,000 gallons sounds like a lot, a "storm" in LA can drop 100 million of gallons of rainwater in 24 hours...LA's catchbasin system absorbed 22 billion gallons of water in the 4 month period between October 2016 and Jan 2017 (https://www.scpr.org/news/2017/01/23/68360/how-much-storm-wa...)

Recycled or not, it does evaporate. Its in a very dry area of the world.

> The Surf Ranch is a high-end/test pool, and they've been pretty open about that

My point isnt that its not cool, its more that its the anti-thesis of surfing as a whole.

Yes, but it does not waste water the way tried to make it sound.

surfing culture has changed a lot...kelly slater's participation led to a big part of the change. i watched him give interviews in a recent andy irons documentary touched by god and the man is a pure machine - there's nothing laid back or surfer-like about him at all. you respect him for his complete dedication to the craft and willpower to rise to the top of the surfing world no matter what, not for his carefree, anti-corporate, all-too human personality (personified by andy irons and his tragic relapses in/out of drugs while still competing at top surfing competitions)

guaranteed if you go out to your local beach and poll the surfers, 50%+ are well-paid workers in corporate america, otherwise they wouldn't have the means and time to buy all the gear needed and live close enough to the beach to surf as a hobby

the wave machine is perfect for practicing, showing off, and competing for a televised audience, which will bring in more sponsors and of course put more money/attention into the sport. the surf you know is mostly dead [1], which isn't necessarily a bad thing, everything changes

[1] https://surfisdead.com/

Surfing culture is still very much alive. It's just that with growth, it's no longer only the beach bums. I work pretty close to Venice, and have polled the surfers there before, and it's definitely no-where close to 50+% "well-paid workers in corporate america." It's closer to 25% corporate workers, about half people who live/breathe/work surfing, and the remainder an odd mix of everyone else.

i surf down by tower 26 occassionally and live near venice. old school beach bums are a dying breed. given the rent in venice/SM the new crowd of people moving in is all silicon beach residents/young professionals/influencers. maybe i'll see you down there some day ;)

If you have ever been to Lemoore, you would never call it a "very dry area of the world."

It's extremely humid there most of the year. It doesn't get much rainfall but it's not a dry place by any means, and its definitely not a desert.

So, if it's OK for a golf course to waste a bunch of water, then it's OK for everyone to waste a bunch of water.

Got it.

/Lives in the desert. Gets annoyed by people in water scarce environments making excuses for wasting water.

You are totally missing the point...

1) It's not a water-scarce environment. The Surf Ranch is surrounded by farms.

2) The Surf Ranch uses less water than its surrounding properties, and uses less water than an activity that most people in dry climates regard as a waste of time (i.e. golfing).

Like all pools, it takes a lot of water. They don't just dump the water into the system. They have tanks on-site to reclaim most of it, and a neighboring overflow/storage pool to minimize water wastage.

And this is just the beta pool, where they're trying to figure out the wave mechanics. Commercial pools like the one in Florida will have more advanced water reclamation/recycling systems.

1) It's not a water-scarce environment. The Surf Ranch is surrounded by farms.

Being surrounded by farms doesn't mean it's not water scarce. People have been irrigating desert for thousands of years.

The location is classified as BSk "semi-arid"†, just two notches above full-on desert.

The Surf Ranch uses less water than its surrounding properties

Re-read my comment above indicating that two wrongs don't make a right.

And this is just the beta pool, where they're trying to figure out the wave mechanics

What does it matter if it's a test pool, not? There are plenty of places with tons of water to spare in the same time zone.

† https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemoore,_California#Climate

If you had followed up further on the climate classification, you would have seen that the classification is heavily based on the portion of the year during which rainfall is received, not just on the amount of rainfall received. Furthermore, a number of cities in otherwise extremely rainy locations (including Brazil and India) are also categorized as Bsk climates because they also receive most of their water in a limited portion of the year.

If you want to see an example of a wasteful activity in the CA Central Valley, check out https://www.wsj.com/articles/harvard-quietly-amasses-califor... (also posted on HN earlier today). The Surf Ranch replaced a farm, and over the year uses less water than the farm it replaced, so that counts as a net benefit.

uses less water than the farm it replaced, so that counts as a net benefit.

No, it doesn't. Less waste is still waste.

If you want to see an example of a wasteful activity in the CA Central Valley

Continued whataboutism.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on the whole notion of two wrongs making a right.

I was more or less with you until this...

>>uses less water than the farm it replaced, so that counts as a net benefit.

>No, it doesn't. Less waste is still waste.

If waste is bad and this wastes less, that is a net improvement from a waste perspective regardless of whether or not you think it's good for the world.

Your viewpoints would lead to the total cessation of all environmentally-impacting activities. While it’s admirable that you hold these views to the maximum extreme possible, you will find little traction with others who do not feel as extremely as you. That doesn’t mean anyone is right or wrong, but you’ll find people reject your views solely due to the extremism with which they’re expressed. Consider whether that’s the desired outcome and, if not, consider adjusting your approach accordingly.

EDIT: If you have a personal story to tell about water waste, sharing that would go a long way towards helping the rest of us be able to connect with your position.

As a river surfer surfing in Munich I'd love to see our river wave replicated more often. Rivers float 'for free' anyway. Why not just use its power whenever possible and reasonable?

https://youtu.be/fCJyyy97DyA

Thanks for sharing! I do agree that's an awesome idea. I wonder why this isn't more popular. It made me think of flatland skim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UpWbILAIec

I've been thinking about this as well. I suspect recreating a Munich wave would be harder, perhaps much harder, to do than my imagination suggests. Topography, water volume and speed, to say nothing of access and permits etc. But I want one in my town.

As mentioned before, there is a company found by some locals doing exactly that:

http://riverwaveproject.com/

Looks like they built a website but have yet to build any waves?

They already built one in Thalkirchen:

https://youtu.be/MFHYffdBNmI

As far as I know they're involved in several projects researching locations for new waves.

I thought that was the English Garden wave! Very cool.

Going to Munich - and not having heard about the downtown river wave - and then seeing people in wetsuits carrying their boards, dripping along the pavement:what, where, how!!!??? And then finding the wave and watching all the groms - and a couple of silver surfers - for a few glorious hours. And then my girlfriend (now wife) and I cycled up river, left our bikes and clothes and floated back down in our kecks. And then walked back to our bikes and clothes which were still there. Ahhhhh...European summers! And the naked people in the park...hahahahahah. Anywhere in the anglophone world you’d call the police if there were guys getting naked in the park...that is a great place!

... one of the reasons I moved back :) glad u liked it!

It would be really cool to recreate that at Big Bear or Mammoth.

There are some river waves in Boise, Jackson Hole and a few minor ones, but the best are still in Canada, besides Munich, Austria, Swiss and France. As river surfer you don't really care for these expensive big machines, they are not sustainable. Like the Tokyo wave in the 80, which only lasted a few years.

River waves are just not comparable to ocean waves. The mechanics are different and so is the shape and power. I only know of one river wave that reliably stands up and curls and is big enough to surf, and that's on the corner of a huge hydraulic on the Zambezi River in Africa.

River waves also tend to be sensitive to flow, changing pretty dramatically (or even disappearing) with more or less water. There are plenty of river waves that attract surfers, like the Lachine waves near Montreal. But even at their best, they're not like ocean waves.

What's up with the crazy dance club right next to that river wave?

That's amazing! Isn't the possibility of a head injury on that (stone? concrete?) embankment scary when getting on the board?

Yeah, there is some risk. It's not the concrete on the side though but some rough rocks on the bottom which can be quite nasty... That's why locals refer beginners to the second wave in Munich which is located in Thalkirchen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFHYffdBNmI

Some of the local surfers actually found a company which is constructing river waves based on simulation:

http://riverwaveproject.com/

+1 on Finnegan. I enjoyed and recommend his Pulitzer-winning memoir about his surfing obsession - Barbarian Days.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18693910-barbarian-days

I'd say any sport that has a world cup style of competition, where you are constantly flying to different locales isn't very environmentally friendly.

But I see this in skiing/snowboarding (and other outdoor sports). What is the angle that these athletes use to show their pro-environment slant? Is it all just talk/greenwashing? Or is it just that they don't feel their personal environmental impact is all that important?

300,000 gallons is nothing depending on location. I had a seasonal pond on my property that was probably 2,000,000 gallons and could refill in a few days during spring runoff.

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