I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....
Still the economy is going in an upward direction, and Verizon isn't shrinking. Why are they laying off 10K people?
In a more practical consideration, they're very likely going to need less people going forward because they're going to keep losing market share to a more nimble competitor. They'd be the last to admit that of course.
Michigan's unemployment is the lowest it's been since records have been kept: https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21325
Stock buybacks [1] done with these tax cuts, enriching shareholders, does little to stoke economic demand or benefit the middle class [2]. More likely, cheap, loose credit is what has allowed the music to carry on.
[1] https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/investing/stock-buybacks-re... (Tax cut triggers $437 billion explosion of stock buybacks)
[2] https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much... (CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts Will Go To The Middle Class)
At no point was that ever insinuated. The simple idea is that the tax cuts were sold as a way to give companies financial resources to boost salaries and hire new people. Well they got their tax cuts, why are they doing the opposite of what the tax cuts were supposed to do?
Maybe it's because the tax cuts were never going to boost salaries and increase hiring. You have to be pretty deluded to come to the conclusion my comment was blaming the layoffs on the tax cuts.
Then when is the meaning of the parent comment?
> why are they doing the opposite of what the tax cuts were supposed to do?
I'm curious what news you're reading or consuming.
Wages are up 3.1% YoY (biggest increase in 10 years) and unemployment lowest since 1969: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-by-3...
2.7 Million more full-time jobs since January 1, when the tax cuts went into effect.
>Real average hourly earnings increased 0.7 percent, seasonally adjusted, from October 2017 to October 2018.
This is the parent comment, in its entirety:
> I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....
If that doesn't count as insinuation, then nothing does.
Are you serious man? Why be so dishonest? It's clear as day that that's what you were insinuating. Why lie like this?
I don't need to ask everyone in the thread, polluting the thread. I'm asking why you have made several statements in this thread insinuating the corporate tax cut has benefited the economy, with no evidence. My comment includes citations. Bring data, not feelings or unsubstantiated opinions.
It is not a weird lament; it is calling out the lies of trickle down economics.
Stock buybacks don't 'enrich' anyone. Money that is owned by investors goes from 'inside the company' to 'outside' and it 's superficially a net neutral transaction.
What those buy backs do do however is free up capital to be used in more intelligent ways than can be used by the single entity, in this case Verizon, who may not have any great ways to invest it.
Tax cuts probably have not directly affected companies just yet, but the signalling value of it, and that Trump is believed to be a 'pro business' guy (minus trade wars) is at least partly buyoing the economy by providing a dose of faith.
Though stocks are staggering a little because there's fear of no more upside ... there's no real fear yet as no reason for anything to burst. Though a major China trade war - or - a serious setback in China could make a serious correction.
Yes it will make things more expensive, it will probably also cycle a faster upswing in demands for higher pay (also well overdue). But things will balance out in the end. My larger hope is to see some of the more overt corporatism recede quite a bit. Particularly IP terms and reform.
But it's been a 'frog in warming to boiling water' type scenario.
By that I mean - the protectionism, corruption, IP theft etc. has been going on forever - it's just that we didn't care.
Actually - we didn't mind - because a backwards mess of a poor economy might want to do 'whatever it takes' to move forward.
Everyone (well most) was very happy to see China come out of the doldrums. It's better for everyone, generally.
But now that they are reaching for advanced economy status ... the 'issues' become ever more apparent.
I don't like Trump one bit, I find him kind of nauseating in his demeanor - and - I'm not even sure his manner of approach to the 'war' is right.
BUT - 100% of politicians are otherwise incapable of standing up to China. Ironically, it just mike take a loose-cannon douche-bag to do it.
'The West' speaks with 1000 voices: CEOs, NGO leaders, politicians, bureaucrats, federal/state, different countries within federal entities (i.e. EU), heads of Universities, research establishments.
China speaks with 'one voice' and they have a plan, which can actually be carried out.
So if anyone tries to stand up to them, China can scare that 'little individual' with all sorts of things, and by 'little individual' I even mean heads of state.
But ironically, in totality, Western powers do have the upper hand, both because of the direction of trade, but also because of the size of economies, sophistication, all sorts of other reasons.
Example: Trudeau in Canada will mollify Chinese and would be afraid to do anything because China could threaten to not buy Canadian commodities. But here's the thing: they are commodities! So if China stops buying hardwood from B.C. and starts buying it from elsewhere, then as prices receded in Canada and prices increase 'elsewhere' - other buyers come to B.C. for hardwood.
China buying a commodity is like them scooping water out of a river -> it doesn't matter who buys what, the aggregate demand is the same.
But the interim calamity and fear from China walking away will push Canadian CEO's to make Trudeau cede whatever to China.
As an example.
NPR just had an interview with the Robert Lighthizer [1] who talks about the fact China has been saying they'll 'do things' on IP for over 20 years but they've done nothing really. These talks are the first time basically ever that the US is speaking with credibility in terms of actual response/retaliation.
I suggest the Chinese are just waiting for Trump to be out of office, or to give him something political to show for it, and then going back to normal. I would be ideal if the US political org. got together with the EU, Japan, S. Korea, India and Australia ... and made a coordinated, long term effort on these issues. It would actually be better for everyone - even the Chinese, in the long term.
[1] https://www.npr.org/2018/12/07/674730823/u-s-trade-represent...
Even if you believe the tax cuts have had some positive effect on the economy, every legitimate economics professional and reality based think tank said that in order for the tax cuts to pay for themselves growth has to be 6%. Last time I looked it was 4.5%. These tax cuts won't pay for themselves. And the austerity we're in store for when the economy takes a down turn, which is inevitable, will be quite painful.
Hey remember when conservatives used to advocate for fiscal responsibility and balancing the budget? That's only for when Democrats are in charge. It's all an excuse to throw poor people under the bus.
That's exactly what it is...which is why it is currently the top comment. HN never disappoints.
The national deficit is the highest it's been since the recession though, and growing faster than before.
At least during the recession when our tax money was given to corporations, there were strings attached. Now it's all stock buybacks to fight the shrinking market, brought on by the stupid trade war.
It's too early to imply a reliable correlation (not even mentioning causation), but surely something to watch after...
I don't really think you can attribute this to the tax breaks, but if you can - then this would be an immense positive. Employee turnover is already very high pretty much everywhere now a days. Getting paid a year of salary, and more, to agree to leave? That's something I think the vast majority of workers would be absolutely thrilled to be offered. It's a potentially life changing offer giving somebody a chance to carry out any entrepreneurial fantasy they have, to get a fat head start on the joy of compound interest, or simply spending a year with bikinis, booze, and beaches if that's your thing.
Imagine you’re a 50 year old employee with a kid in college. Would you be thrilled to accept a year of salary with limited job prospects? What jobs do you think will be the first to be cut?
Don’t try to sugar coat it - when there are lay-offs (voluntarily or not), it’s rarely a positive for the majority of affected employees. And this in no way should be considered a positive effect of the corporate tax cuts.
If you don't want to leave, don't apply. And on that note - yeah people did have to apply, and some were rejected.
If a company just announced they are hiring a bunch of people, does the tax credit get credit for that? Currently, the US has very low unemployment. Also, in December 2017, wage growth was at 2.9%, while now it has increased to 3.7%. So almost a full percentage point in less than a year. Is that because of the tax cut? It would be very difficult to say for sure, but one thing is clear from the data, the tax cut didn’t reduce wage growth.
What amazes me is some working people will continue to vote this way even though it keeps failing. I guarantee there will be more tax cuts sold in the very near future, and the same people will buy into it. Some people never learn.
It's hard to learn when your sole source of news is Fox News.
It's not even that Fox News is an outlier, the fault is ad supported news media. What do you think will happen when a politician comes along that threatens the million dollar ad accounts from finance and health industries through policies that reduce those institutions influence? Chomsky was right (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent).
Eventually you end up with an anemic government that overspends on things that don't work and ignores all the social programs that the government put in place to prevent history from repeating.
its their money though. its the government taking the money.