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Comment by wenc | Hacker News Reader

Here's an interesting article: "Why is it hard to make friends over 30?" [1]

"As external conditions change, it becomes tougher to meet the three conditions that sociologists have considered crucial to making close friends: proximity; repeated, unplanned interactions; and a setting that encourages people to let their guard down and confide in each other."

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-...

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I make new friends of all ages all the time. At church.

It does provide "proximity; repeated, unplanned interactions; and a setting that encourages people to let their guard down and confide in each other". And not by coincidence. One of the major goals of church is to help people form healthy and significant relationships (that is, friendships).

Yeah, as an atheist, the weekly unforced meetup you guys have is the one thing I do envy.

I wonder how many of the churchgoers secretly have no real faith and are only there for the company...

At least at my church growing up: a lot. Granted, the church I went to was as much a cultural institution as a religious one, but there were plenty of people who were pretty open about not believing if you directly asked them.

You could go, as someone who's open to the possibility of spiritual enlightenment. And likes company. But if you really are an atheist, you'd probably be most comfortable with a Unitarian church. Or perhaps a Friends meeting.

That's what congregations like the Unitarians are like. I go once a month to the local one, and I've been an atheist my entire life. I'd guess about half the people that there are, too, but no one really seems to mind one way or the other, as long as you're friendly and civil to everyone else. Mostly it's a discussion group, and I quite enjoy it.

The hard thing about (some) interest groups is that sometimes they have people "way out there" in political opinions, "different" view of the world (think the views that include the usage of aluminium headwear) or just maladjusted to normal living.

Why is this so hard, though? It might be a little tedious to sit through their ramblings, but it seems to me a sign of the times that this would be considered hard to do.

Depending on the level, it is really detrimental to the experience.

I mean I can take your average left/right winger rambling on, but depending on how far and away it goes it's really a no for me.

Maybe the reason people are so lonely is that we're at an unprecedented time in history where people can "opt out" of interacting with anyone with whom they disagree?

It seems to me like everyone is opting out of talking to people across the political aisle. It's become so dire that we see articles teaching people how to deal with "that one uncle" at family gatherings [1].

[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+talk+to+that+uncle+at+Chris...

I know what you mean. But (and I think this is genuinely, deeply important) listening to people's thoughts and opinions when they are far outside how you see things is vital if you want to make sure that your own perceptual bubble isn't vastly out of sync with the rest of society.

I have friends from across the political spectrum, and one of my primary concerns of the modern time is how many of them have incredibly inaccurate strawman conceptions of what 'the other side' is like. The only solution I know of is to actually talk in person.

So what happens at a Unitarian service?

I've imagined it's a non/cross religious service for any religious/spiritual people, but I honestly have no idea.

With the caveat that fellowships vary significantly between one another, most of the ones I've gone to follow the pattern of:

show up, prepare some coffee/light snacks, as soon as a critical mass of folks have arrived, sing a short welcoming hymn,

brief discussion of happenings since the last meeting (ie, which scholarship got the most votes to support last time, so that's the one we'll fund, etc),

main service, usually someone giving a talk about some aspect of what they've done (ie, my father was a diplomat focused on human rights, he would talk about a few select issues, and how things did or did not work out)

discussion following the presentation, with a focus on the morality aspects (it is a church meeting, after all)

passing of the hat to fund stuff like scholarships & pay the minimal expenses that come with meetings

closing hymn, everyone says goodbye with a smile.

So it's a lot like a nominal Christian service you'd find in a lot of churches across the US, with the difference being that the actual God part of the discussion is greatly minimized, and the social aspect emphasized. I genuinely enjoy going.

Thanks!

> ...with the difference being that the actual God part of the discussion is greatly minimized...

With all due respect, the main focus of a Christian worship service is "the actual God part", so removing the content creates an entirely different thing altogether.

It's also worth noting that the Christian content... actual belief in the teachings of the Bible, does reinforce certain aspects of church that might be essential to long-term (millennia) health of that form of spiritualism. Perhaps some of: mandatory evangelism, canonized moral codes, commandments to humility, recognition that humanity is ultimately flawed, belief in perfect justice in eternity (reduces the need to enforce certain norms), and the list goes on.

>With all due respect, the main focus of a Christian worship service is "the actual God part", so removing the content creates an entirely different thing altogether.

99.x% of Christian services are morality instructions, which one is free to ponder regardless of any particular belief one might hold.

The why of it in a traditional Christian service is 'God'. That's where many Unitarians (and myself) veer from older religious institutions. But I'm still happy to talk about morality with a regular Christian, in the the same way I'll talk about it with anyone else who has an interest in such things.

This is awesome. My first thought was "church" and that's the top comment at the moment.

"Yeah but atheist" was expected and my first thought was U-U, and, bam, there it is.

My work is done here. Time for another Manhattan.

(BTW, I suspect urban Methodists (of which I am one) will also be cool, and will discourage the lunatics a bit more.)

Seeing as how my mother was Methodist, my father Unitarian, I am inclined to agree with you. Cheers!

Half, I'd say.

As an atheist, I've been on two Catholic pilgrimages and countless church services.

My first pilgrimage was to Lourdes in the South of France - as a member of the German army. During an introduction course in the first weeks after joining the army we were told we were entitled to certain programs, and getting time off from the army. After basic training and entering regular service I went to the base's priest, told I'm I'm an atheist and that I'm interested in going to Lourdes. No problem. Best party of my life I must say, in a landscape straight from a movie (but I think I was the only one of ~35,000 soldier pilgrims to walk into the hills, even if they started right at the edge of town).

Second pilgrimage was with a Catholic girlfriend, walking from dawn to dusk to a Catholic pilgrimage destination for several days. Very strenuous. I even "spread god's word" in a sense, when towards the end somebody thought I still looked fresh and strong so I got to carry one of the loudspeaker backpacks used to spread the prayers spoken by a priest at the end of the procession along the long line of pilgrims :)

Nobody cares what you are. Just go if you want. There even are priests that are atheists: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/lutherans-in-a-quandary-over...

> Alarm bells started ringing in earnest last June, when the priest in question, Thorkild Grosboel, pastor of Taarbaek, a town near Copenhagen, went on to elaborate his views in an interview. "There is no heavenly God, there is no eternal life, there is no resurrection," he said, with typical Scandinavian matter of factness.

> Grosboel has since refused to step aside and insists that his lack of belief in some of the theological foundations on which the Christian church is built, does not stop him fulfilling the duties for which he is paid.

Your pilgrimage to Lourdes sounds interesting. Do you remember the route, or the at least the origin of your trip? Thanks :)

The route was by train from Germany directly to the city. The annual international military pilgrimage (in May) does not involve having to use ones feet. But it does involve drinking lots and lots of alcohol... it's probably not the same for all nations, but our train had one wagon dedicated to transporting beer for both parts of the trip, there and back, quite officially :)

> Nobody cares what you are. Just go if you want.

Yeah, but I don't belong there. I don't believe in the whole purpose of the organization. So it would feel like a big weird lie to show up to mass each week just to mingle.

Plus I have no idea what one does at a church/synagogue/mosque. How does that social scene work? I suppose on some level that's an argument for going there to see what happens.

And maybe if I get that lonely one day I'll do that.

Fellowship is a thing. Tabletop gaming is the closest thing I can think of to a similar motivation, but for the non-religious.

Humans need chill hangs.

I have strong suspicion my Catholic parents were like this their whole life. We never discussed the spiritual or dogmatic aspects of the religion. It was all about going to the church itself.

Go to concerts and chat with people between sets/afterwards. Pub quizzes are good too, see if a team is a member short and if you can join. Get into pen & paper gaming, your local trad games store probably arranges open nights for new people.

Anywhere there's a shared interest, friendships happen.

Same. It's great. Moreover, I meet people from all walks of life. I'm a software engineer, but my men's group has electricians, video editors, plumbers, therapists, etc. It's a mixed bag.

I wonder how much of the issues we have with increasing social stratification are due to the fact that who you know is basically completely dependent on your job these days.

I grew up in a church and this is basically the only thing I miss.

In fact it just makes me angry when I think back -- here we have a warm community in which that friendship and companionship are available only on the condition that you alter your cognition and beliefs to conform to a very precise code.

Some serious strings-attached.

You can get the same experience in a lot of collegiate environments.

For example literally being in a college, being in a mess in the military, being in a sports team.

I'd add a fourth...People being able to interact spontaneously and without fear. It's hard to strike up a micro-conversation. People either aren't able or aren't willing.

Long to short, "friends"is two way street. And such things can't happen without communication.

> It's hard to strike up a micro-conversation.

This really varies a lot. In urban areas where few people are "from there", you'll find chatting with strangers happens less often.

In small towns and neighborhoods full of locals, it happens a lot more.

I do Brazilian jiujitsu and I find it is great for making friends outside of college and work. There is something about exerting a lot of energy and aggression safely in a safe place against others that is able to forge some strong friendships. Highly recommend for everyone.

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