Yes, You Should Walk Your Cat | Hacker News Reader

Yes, You Should Walk Your Cat

nytimes.com

115 pointsveganjay143 comments

I live in a urban area with a freight train line running along the back of the house, apart from any roadways or people. Trains run a few times a day, and are slow and massive.

I take my three cats for an unleashed walk along the tracks a short way. They instinctively form a hunting party around me as we walk; they treat me like the platoon commander or some such. One is the scout, the senior maintains discipline, etc.

At the first sign of a distant train, they inform me, and we go back to the yard and watch the train pass. They must consider them some kind of mighty, blind worms.

It is not quite the same as a leash-walk through the forest, but I feel very lucky to have a little pocket for the cats to reveal their outdoor personalities in this way.

Excellent.

I've "had" a cat for 10 years but it's completely free (hence the quotes: I don't feel I own it at all). It comes in and out of the house at will, sleeps in the house during the day and does things outside during the night (but sometimes it also does the opposite, sleeps at night and wanders during the day).

I keep food for the cat inside the house, but no litter box; it does its thing outside -- not sure where: not in our garden.

There are other cats in the neighborhood, also walking free. There has never been a cat hit by a car.

It must be wonderful to be able to herd cats! Ours kind of responds to voice commands when it feels like it (it seems to understand "no!" mostly) and is able to make itself understood when food is missing, but not much else.

I'm by no means a tree hugger, but seriously? "Outdoor" cats, whether feral or otherwise are absolutely decimating birds and small mammals.

Of all the low hanging fruit on the "stop destroying the planet for no reason", keeping your cats inside or on a leash requires basically 0 effort.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-...

Sorry, but no: Don't keep cats indoors or on a leash.

Cats are predators. And they need freedom. If you're concerned for birds et al. don't get a cat.

Don't be cruel to cats to satisfy your need for a pet by forcing your view of how nature should work onto them.

Cats are domesticated. They made the indoor outdoor decision a long time ago.

My cat lives more than 50% of its time outside the house. It also can sit for hours on a window sill.

Small mammals is kind of the point. There are mice in the garden that try to get into the house; the cat's job is to kill as many as possible.

Regarding birds, I'm not sure. It can't catch magpies and other crows. We don't see or hear other birds (we live outside Paris and don't have that many birds). I don't think it would make a lot of difference to keep our cat indoors since all other cats in the neighborhood also live outside -- except upsetting and depressing ours.

A few weeks ago I heard the claim that you have to supervise your cat while it is outdoors or else you will be responsible for extinction of certain species... That sounded a bit ridiculous to me so I read a few articles on that topic. (the first few sources of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife are a good start)

While cats do kill a lot animals, including endangered species, many articles that claim your outdoor cat is irreversible destroying wildlife seem quite sensationalist. Many articles make it sound like pets are the real threat but only mention on the side that feral cats are responsible for the majority of killed animals instead. It would be far more beneficial (for wildlife, pets and feral cats) if people would support projects for controlling feral cat population than confining their pets.

We brought a cat inside that was free roaming and an amazing hunter. She was so effective and cruel we couldn't take it. Half eaten lizards, wrens on the wing, a wounded hummingbird. That was it. She's now a fat sleepy lap cat. God bless her.

The group patroling might encourage communication, it is very interesting. They are quiet when in the field, with the exception of the senior cat hissing and growling at the others when they get too rowdy.

One cat will deliberately yawn when she wants to come in the closed window, and observes that I spotted her from inside, every time. She is mimicking the opening motion, I am positive of it.

Much of their communication may be silent, and they are talking to us all the time. The meows are just an extra effort for our benefit, I think.

Dude you need to capture this whole scene on a camera and upload it on YouTube. Sounds so exciting and entertaining to watch.

Seconding this request; the idea of domesticated cats behaving like this is kinda mind blowing, I've never seen that kind of ordered social behavior.

It was far more ordered than I expected, yes.

I have a tiny clip of a walk with 2 of the 3 from earlier this year. The rear-guard likes to play catch-up after I snap my fingers.

https://youtu.be/3ylsCp692f0

They’re so cute.

Yeah, normally trying to get them all to do the same thing is like herding cats.

That is one awesome thing to do with cats. Do you let them outside without you?

Two of the cats are interested in exploring the back on their own, one will only step outside if I go. After escorting them for awhile when training them, I generally let them go.

I think the randomness of the long trains deters them from going far, or even to the other side, and they understand that the yard square is “home base.” There is no chance anything larger than a fox from appearing this deep in the city, and there is enough foliage to escape a stray dog if it came along. So the train is the only threatening thing, which they are (appropriately) in awe of when it passes.

I've been walking my 1.5 y/o cat on a leash since he was about six months old.

I walk him just about every morning. I can't sit down to program until he's had his time outside, or he'll meow incessantly for it.

Walking a cat is much like she describes. They don't walk at all like dogs, but rather sort of zig zagging at what is interesting at that moment. There are certain leashes that work better than others.

I see in this thread a lot of people that "tried it" and the cat didn't like it. There is a lot of build up to walking a cat outside, that starts with just having the harness around. There are guides on how to do it, but you don't just throw a leash on the cat and see how it goes, then give up.

I posted some photos [1] of my cat on his walks, including one showing him climbing a tree while on his leash. It shows a bit how much fun they can have outside.

[1] https://imgur.com/a/EdwhS52

Your cat should totally take up modeling.

My cat is indoors only and made a couple escape attempts that were a little traumatizing for me (helicopter cat mom here), so while I considered getting him a leash once, I ultimately decided against it because I was afraid it'd make him a little more comfortable with the outside world and might emboldened him to make more escape attempts in the future. Not happening in a rural place where there's coyotes, oh hell no.

So instead of walks, we play catch. I wad up paper scraps and throw them and he'll leap into the air to catch them with his paws or swat them away. His ability to catch is honestly amazing to me, he gets it the vast majority of the time, and sometimes he'll leap a good 3 feet in the air, it's super impressive. It's also extremely entertaining! I have a lot of fun with "cat baseball practice", and I think the reason he's so responsive to paper wads is because those were the only cat toys I had for him as a kitten, so every time he hears the sound of paper crumpling he perks up and comes running.

He also loves diving into 12 pack cardboard boxes with the ends ripped off to make them into a tube. My living room floor is constantly covered in trash cat toys but I love it.

My mom taught her cat to fetch with thin plastic rings the size of bracelets. She'd sort of chuck them like a mini Frisbee and her cat would swipe them out of the air like a pro athlete. She used to get her cat toys but they had a tendency of mysteriously disappearing forever.

They are all under the refrigerator. Guaranteed to find them, along with milk jug rings, hair ties, and other circles.

I also recommend cable ties (the long ones that won't be accidentally swallowed).

We tried this with a cat we had several years back. He had been an indoors cat his whole life. After a few very successful outdoor walks, he would sit at the door screaming until we let him out again and he didn't stop at night either... It became so bad that we had to place him at a new home at a farm where he can be outside as much as he wants. It's a better life for him for sure, even if we do miss him a lot it would be selfish to rob him of that desire for the outdoors.

I’m so sorry for you and so happy for your cat! Good on you

Thanks, I'm alright. I'm just happy that he's happy! :-)

My father also sent my cat to a farm when I was young!

That must have been hard to explain, but i bet the cat got it better - probably catching farm-mice ;-)

I had a cat who would walk on a leash. I had another one that liked going for "walks" where he would perch on my shoulder while I walked, like a pirate's parrot.

My current cats aren't walkers. One hates the leash, and the other hates the mere idea of "outside."

I think one of the easier ways to do right by your cats is to always have two or more. When we got Gentle Ben, Max Power suddenly reverse-aged by like five years.

This. A lot of the reason people think cats are aloof or un-social is because they have only known solitary cats, who like people in solitary situations, are likely to be depressed and have other issues.

I've had a number of cats over the years, but the best experience for me and for the cats has been with pairs from the same litter or who grow up together. It makes a huge difference when they have company.

Some cats do better with a companion, some are much happier when they are “only cats”.

You have to know your cat well enough to know which is right for them.

how do you figure this out if your cat has never met another cat since being a kitten at the shelter? I've considered having him meet a friend's cat, but I would imagine it takes a few weeks to really judge whether they're happier together.

It depends, but if your cat is young and the cat you introduce is a kitten, and your cat is demanding a lot of play time from you, chances are a second cat will work. If your cat is old and cranky, not so much. It will definitely take a couple weeks of contact for them to work it out. Even if they don't get along particularly well, it still might be a net win.

Yes probably, but I wonder if that depends on the specific companion.

There are a number of cat/kitten shelter agencies which do not adopt single kittens anymore, only in pairs:

http://www.orphankittenrescue.com/adopt

It's usually done when part of a litter, they don't want to break brothers and sisters apart (though it's usually done 2 by 2 or more)

When my wife and I were in grad school, we got 2 kittens. They really entertained each other.

Our next door neighbor had a single older cat. The cat had a weight problem so they got a book, "How to exercise your cat". As I recall, the opening sentence was, "If you have 2 cats, you don't need this book."

I used to see my neighbor walking his cat on a leash every morning. It was always an amusing sight to behold, but the cat seemed alright with it. I think the practicality of it varies from individual cat to cat though.

Grew up with an outdoor cat in a suburb with backyard. Would let her in when she wanted and out when she wanted.

She would occasionally follow us on a walk without any invitation or leash. We were a little surprised "Do cats do that?" I think first time we tried to shoo her back but then we realized it was fine and just let her come with us.

Worst that happened was one time a dog scared her up into a tree but she came down eventually.

A neighboring family were not so lucky. Theirs kept getting run over by cars (Not because of walks just because of being outside).

I’ve enjoyed the company of cats most of my life, and have had a few that really enjoyed being outside with me:

One loved to perch on my shoulder and go everywhere with me.

Another (not strictly mine, he came with a long-term relationship) would bring his harness to me for walks.

My current loves to look out the windows, but will not go outside on her own. Instead, she has a backpack that she loves to travel in, and is extremely happy to go for “walks”. She’s been the delight of the local pub, and gets jealous if I leave without her.

I am still wary to leave cats on their own outside, mostly due to health of them and the local wildlife population, but am happy to facilitate outside interaction.

A lot of people here are talking about how cats that go outside don’t live as long.

That may be true for the median but growing up my grandmother had a cat on her farm that went outside whenever it pleased.

It lived to be 21 years old.

It used to be normal to let both cats and dogs run free around the neighborhood. I understand why people don’t want to do that anymore, but it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal.

> it’s fascinating how quickly our culture has forgotten what used to be completely normal.

It also used to be completely normal to destroy aggressive dogs, especially ones with a history of biting people. Now we "rescue" and "rehabilitate" those dogs.

In light of that, it's good that we've forgotten how to let dogs roam the neighborhood unleashed.

Used to be normal to let children explore and play freely around the neighbourhood as well. The good'ol days, I guess.

a significant fraction of children don't end up under car tires because its possible to verbally communicate the danger.

In the countryside in Russia dogs are usually on the chain and don't run outside the yard, but cats have always been free and nobody would even think of locking them in the house. How is it going to catch mice and birds that destroy crops?

Man what is it woth russians and cats honestly? The love that dares not say its name. I lived so myself - in the russian “glubinka” with a family of cats as a child and loved them dearly, but still

I think russians love cats disproportionately more on average than anywhere else in the world, dogs too but I do think the cat is a national animal of sorts.

They did good work chasing out the vermin though - no need for rat poison or pesticides- just have some cats :)

I think Istanbul may have you beat there, and even if you don't agree the documentary Kedi about their street cats is absolutely worth watching :)

https://www.economist.com/prospero/2017/02/09/istanbuls-love...

Too many weird people in my neighborhood, too many cars speeding in the streets, and too many assholes plowing down the sidewalks on their bikes. It’s not safe out there for something that weighs less than 20lbs.

Anecdotes aren't as useful as data for making real decisions. Average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15 years average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 5. This is like you dying in your 20s.

Isn't 5 years for a homeless cat? I doubt that a cat that has a home and food would live so little.

Have you owned outdoor roaming cats? It's not pretty. Some areas are worse than others.

I had one that accidentally got out one night and got killed by a coyote.

Ok, I got it. We just don't have such animals here, and volwes, who could catch a cat, are rare.

I suspect your outdoor average also covers feral cats

Hey a relative article. The wife and I have been walking both of our cats on leashes daily for 10 years. They love it, and importantly, it fulfills them - they sleep better, they are happier, they have less anxiety. Warning though: once you start, every day they will be demanding it.

First the goat link, now this. Is HN shifting away from its technology focus? CRISPR is great, but I don't think we're ready to talk about reimplementing lisp on top of a mammalian genome. :)

I'm still waiting for GPS trackers to get small enough for cats to wear comfortably on their collars. It would be fun making an app that did interesting things with that data.

I'd be more curious to look at my cat's "fitbit" data than my own. A lot of cat owners would love to check on their cat's roaming data.

There, a little tech for you without straying too far from cats, pardon pun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZ3pzYffzc

https://www.whistle.com/

Only one cat image on that page and he doesn't look pleased about his collar to be honest. Cats need their agility unobstructed by an anchor around their neck. I'm still waiting for smaller tags.

https://www.whistle.com/images/whistle3/testimonials/tomsell...

Cats in general do not look pleased most of the time. I have this tracker on my cat and two dogs. After a couple of days cat got used to collar, as he never had one before. Tag itself doesn't seem to disturb him, unlike, for example absence of 24/7 food supply and presence dogs that want to play with him.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18511923

Tried this once with my old childhood cat. She hated it, and would wiggle out of the collar. What she would do is follow us around on walks in our suburban neighborhood leash free. She would usually stay a house or two behind us and run from hedge to hedge.

We were worried that she would follow me all the way to school, when I started walking there, but we tested this, and she would refuse to cross a big street on the way.

I had the good fortune to live with the same cat from when I was 11-30. He was an indoor cat for the first large chunk of his life. In his waning years we escorted him into the back yard for short visits. He loved it, but at the slightest sign of “bigger creatures” or anything spooky to him he’d book it indoors.

Our cat was indoor/outdoor that we would keep in at night due to a (justified) fear of larger predators. He lived a very long and healthy life and I definitely attribute that to him spending many of his waking hours outside engaged in hunting and patrolling behavior. I'm not sure that a leeshed walk would be a good substitute though, since a patrolling cat wants to be able to start hunting a rodent or fleeing danger at a moment's notice, and I suspect that some of the exercise is in sprinting, running up trees, and pouncing on prey. In my cat's later years he lost the boldness to stalk our entire yard by himself, but would enjoy it if we walked out there with him so he could smell everything without fear. The benefit of the walk is probably keeping the cat mentally active rather than physically.

I came home from a trip one day and there was a beautiful cat sitting in my driveway. He was super friendly and chatty. It was getting cold, so we let him sleep just inside the front door on a towel. In the morning he would wait to be let out.

Before he arrived we had a problem with mice and rats. He immediately went to work cleaning up the area, and leaving us tributes on the front porch. When we didn't take them, he would finish them off. He only came in at night, and loved being outside.

He did get into it with a raccoon (we assume). He had a tooth imbedded near his tail. Had to have minor surgery and wear a cone and stay inside for 3 weeks. I caught this while he was using the litter in front of the house: https://i.redd.it/i8gwk5nod2321.png

I agree with others that outdoor cats can live a shortened life. He was with us for 6 years and was probably a few years old when he arrived.

If your cat likes the leash and walking, it will be a treat. I think lots of cats might not like it.

Adding to the many anecdotes here.. I had an orange tabby growing up in a quiet suburban neighborhood. Our property abutted a golf course. The cat was mostly an outdoor cat, coming and going as weather and food swayed it. Quite the hunter of snakes/squirrel/rabbit and birds, she was regularly dive bombed by blue jays when crossing the golf course.

We were also a dog family and the cat followed on our walks, golf course during the day and around the block at night. Quite a few times she 'protected' the dog from other cats on the nightly walk. I always found it a bit strange that she did this but I guess it is not all that uncommon to follow the family.

I put a harness on my rescue every day before feeding him for the first few months so he's totally fine with it as an adult.

The problem when going outdoors is he just squats in the grass and meows; very happy to go back inside.

I adopted a one year old stray cat and after a few indoor attempts he seeemed to be okay wearing a harness but trying to get him to go outside was impossible. He REALLY prefers to be inside.

I do have a small 15x15ft balcony with some plants and overlooks some trees. When it’s warm I keep a window open for him to go out and he definitely likes watching the birds and the bees that come by, but apart from that he seems to prefer being inside.

> cats are a blight on ecosystems, killing countless [...] small mammals

They do. Cats kill mice. And while domestic cats may have some difficulty killing rats, they definitely make life uncomfortable for rats. That's why the Egyptians decided 6000 years ago that cats are sacred.

Killing "small animals" such as mice and rats is a good thing. Ever heard about the Black Death? It was spread by rats (their fleas, to be precise). Yes, if we somehow managed to drive mice and rats to extinction, that would "reduce biodiversity", but it would be a good thing.

It's likely they're referring to the effect outdoor cats have on bird populations. They're credited with the the extinction of 63 species: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056110/

The problem is this doesn't delineate very well between the feral and urban populations. While feral cats are enormously destructive to some ecosystems, and irresponsible pet ownership is obviously going to contribute to the feral cat population, it's far less clear that urban domestic cat populations contribute to ecosystem damage in any serious fashion - because far more damage was done when we went and paved over hundreds of sq miles of that ecosystem to build a city there.

These feral cat populations came from what used to be domestic cats, which got out and bred.

Nobody is claiming that humans haven't caused damage to the ecosystem. But you're just spouting a whataboutism when we _know_ that cats are also incredibly damaging when let to roam free.

And rodents (that's rats and mice, you know, the critters cats hunt) with the extinction of 75 species, same source. Maybe it's complicated and pretending that pests and song birds are exactly the same doesn't help?

These data only refer to island ecosystems like Australia. And this is all nonnative species, not just cats. This is entirely irrelevant to the issue of urban and suburban cats in the United States.

"mammals", though?

And lizards.

Cats are especially devastating on island ecosystems where birds, small mammals, reptiles, fish and amphibians have few natural predators. Small mammals such as mice, voles, shrews, moles, bats, pikas, and yes even rats are valuable in ecosystems as an abundant source of food for birds of prey and other predators or good controllers of insects and other things we consider pests. Without small mammals larger predators have a greatly reduced food supply. Plus some small mammals are cute as fuck.

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/feral-cats...

And possums, birds, marsupials, lizards, frogs, snakes... endangered or at risk alike.

  Cats kill mice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

A problem with cats is their natural reaction to a leash: they start moving backwards, where dogs move forwards. It always fascinated me how different cats and dogs are, in many ways.

I've got three cats, one little girl with a violent past, I was sure several times that she would kill herself in various ways (including having 7 Kittens at 5 months old). 18 years later her every single day has been complete indulgence and she expects it! She changed from being an indoor cat 2 years ago into 'bush girl' and she's never looked better. The point being, as long as your cat is super happy. Enough.

my cat likes to pretend like he enjoys going outside, then when he gets outside he flops around for about 10 minutes and then goes back inside.

Let me know how that works out for you... Cats do a fair amount of environmental damage to birds and the like, but they also contribute to the natural order as food - my neighbor takes in strays, but never has many cats, as the (too few) remaining coyotes in the canyons here in Austin yomp a couple of them every year.

Umm no, a thousand times no, first off my cat walks himself, he is free to come and go as he pleases. second and most importantly if you value your flesh actually being attached to your skeleton youd be wise to not attempt to put a lead on my cat, he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness

> he is free to come and go as he pleases

The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds. A lot of them. Some species may be risking extinction. Plus, if you live in a condo 13 stories up, that's not possible.

> he would happily peel your face off for putting a collar on him let alone a harness

Takes time and effort, but cats are trainable. I grew up with a murder-mitted beast who didn't put up with anything. My cats now, I take the time to train them rather than let them be violent.

How many birds do they actually eat? The study I've seen has been mostly speculation as it's an incredibly hard thing to measure generally.

Feel free to explore the sources here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. Scientifically sound conservation and policy intervention is needed to reduce this impact."

> The problem with indoor/outdoor cats is that they eat all they need at home, but still hunt and kill birds.

How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats? Are you worried about the cat's immortal soul?

Or is it more that you just think cats are a problem in general, but you'd prefer to make the claim more specific than that here?

>How is this a problem with indoor/outdoor cats?

It's answered in the same post you just quoted. They hunt so many birds they are destructive to the environment and are driving some to extinction.

Do you have a source to back up that claim? Australia has specific problems with cats, but apart from that, without evidence to the contrary, i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife. There are more pressing issues to do with birds, mostly involving loss of hedgerows and tree habitats from 'development', and climate change.

>i don't see cats as any more problematic than other wildlife

The massive numbers of them are the problem. The only other pet as common is a dog and they don't hunt birds just for the sake of hunting like many cats do.

That sounds like a problem with outdoor cats. Why call out indoor/outdoor cats?

The only part of the complaint specific to indoor/outdoor cats is that they hunt even though a human will feed them. That's a complaint about the cats' morality, not a complaint about their effects.

It also assumes without justification that humans don't feed their outdoor cats.

Cats hunting is a problem regardless of whether or not there are fed. It has zero to do with their 'morality'.

The problem is any cats that wander around killing multiple birds. So many people have cats that even a small percentage of them doing this is super destructive to the local birds.

I've been walking my dog in very busy parts of Seattle for hours almost every day for the last 7 months, and have encountered hundreds of other dogs... and exactly ONE cat the whole time. It was a beautiful bengal cat on a leash. In any case, around here, people very rarely walk their cats. I always wondered why.

my grandma had cats, who wandered anywhere in village but i guess that's normal in village if you have your own house, but my neighbor nearby has cat which they let wander outside here in the 1.5M city, i am a bit surprised they are not afraid of some teenagers killing their cat, biggest issue AFAIK was that many people didn't like the cat walking around sandpits with toddlers/infants paint littering there, though i have never seen it and just let my child touch the nice cat

so sorry for not finding article revolutionary in any way, you might as well let them roam free which is much more natural than cat on leash, personally if i would be cat owner i would use GPS tracker to know cat's whereabouts

Our cat used to follow us without harness 2km in to the woods and back, but only in the night. :)

That sounds like fun for you and the cat. They love running around at night. Flashlights or night vision goggles?

I often go on walks with my cat without a leash up the mountain that I live at the base of. She just follows me; occasionally she'll lag behind if something interests her, but she catches up eventually if I just keep walking.

I tried this with my first ex-wife's cat, sixteen years ago. It didn't work out very well.

Let me know how that works out for you...

Took my cat for a walk once. Traumatized him so much he now just sits in the corner and talks to himself and chain smokes. Poor guy is still suffering flash backs of his time on the outside. Who can blame him?

Thats not healthy. I've convinced my cat to switch to vaping. Now, he only smokes when he drinks. But I'm a realist about this sort of thing.

If you have to trap an animal inside of your home at all times because if it had the chance it would run away forever and you would never see it again, what is the best word to describe relationship? I don't think "pet" is the right word.

Having an animal like a cat live its life mostly indoors is contradictory to its nature and will likely have negative effects on its health. If you want to own an indoor cat that's fine but one should not be deluded into thinking that the animal's best interest is in living inside with occasional outdoor excursions on a tether.

Cats are not kept indoors to keep them from running away. Cats are kept indoors to keep them from killing birds and other small creatures, to keep them out of traffic, and sometimes keep them from breeding.

You can't make blanket statements about all breeds of house cats like you do. These are domesticated animals, even if they do still have some wild instincts and capable of becoming feral. Cats have been living on tiny boats for literally thousands of years.

There is a distinction between domestication and permanent indoor confinement. Horses are domesticated and so are dogs, donkeys, cows and cats. Just because some of them are of a convenient size to be kept indoors at all times or tied to a string to be paraded around an urban does not mean that it is in the best interest of the animal to do so.

From your comment it seem that you imagine an animal is either confined to indoors with occasional walks or they are feral. Keeping a domesticated animal is normal. Keeping an animal locked in your house or on a leash at all times is weird. Dogs and cats need open space to run and explore. If you want to keep an animal in a way that contradicts their nature, fine. Just don't lie to yourself about adapting to your lifestyle to their needs. You are adapting their lifestyle to your ego.

Is there an ideological bent behind your opinion? I'm not going to assume there is, but this sounds like something a radical vegan or a PETA supporter would say.

In any event, as several other people have chimed in, ask any vet.

My comment is that blanket statements here are inappropriate, and I certainly don't imagine there are only two states a cat can exist in. There are many, many breeds of cats and cats have distinct personalities. Statements like 'contradicts their nature' cannot be made about something as broad as 'all cats', because there are so many natures being discussed.

You might also keep cats indoors to stop them from picking up fleas.

> negative effects on its health

I had an indoor cat growing up, came from a family of barn cats.

He outlived three generations of relatives.

This doesn't seem out of line with the averages:

https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/how-long-do-cats-live-cat-...

Lifespan isn't the only measure of health. Residents of the Matrix lived quite long. We can keep cancer patients on a morphine drip for years.

Citing a highly speculative piece of science fiction doesn’t support a claim.

Cats are perfectly fine indoors and not "trapped". In fact, indoor cats live much longer on average than outdoor cats because there is much less danger (attacked by dogs, wild animals, ran over, poisoned, maimed)

Cats are not dogs, or lions for that matter. They don't have to be outside to be happy.

first of all, I don't think it's terribly inhumane to keep a cat inside.

that said, averages never tell the full story. an urban environment with cars and many feral cats is a dangerous place for a pet. a rural environment that doesn't happen to have many predators is probably not that bad. also being outdoors is much more dangerous for very young and very old cats.

In rural settings there are more foxes, coyotes, and hunters which are dangers to cats. They can also get stuck and die, or injured and die because they can't come back. None of that happens with indoor cats, urban or rural.

>> Having an animal like a cat live its life mostly indoors is contradictory to its nature and will likely have negative effects on its health. <<

Ditto for humans.

In most cases the cat would probably come back after it had its fun outdoors. "Outdoor" cats do this every day. The main reason is its potential to be killed by wildlife, traffic, or consideration of its effects on local bird populations.

I do sympathize with you about cats that never get to go outside. Leashes are probably a reasonable compromise.

If you never let your cat out on its own you'll never find out if they'll come back.

> ... will likely have negative effects on its health

Indoor cats have lifespans multiple times that of outdoor cats, so I think the alternative has negative effects on health, too.

Outdoor cats do okay, the ones I grew up with lived to be 16 and 21. It depends on where you live, what predators they might have to face.

My family had several cats over the time I grew up. All could go outside whenever they wanted.

The oldest got to 8 yrs.

Most died of organ failures, one from a genetic illness and another one never came back.

The Organ failures were probably from rat poison... So, the outside killed them

that's great, but on average outdoor cats really do live much shorter lives. [0]

[0] https://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indo...

Anecdote, data, all that.

>I don't think "pet" is the right word

Pet is exactly the right word. The word you seem to be thinking of is wild animal, which is distinct from a pet. A pet is an animal kept by humans for human comfort and entertainment, not an animal living naturally in its native habitat.

It's fine if you disagree with pet ownership, but making sure an animal only does what its human owners want it (be that staying indoors or roaming free) to do is the definition of owning a pet.

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