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Comment by maceurt | Hacker News Reader

Bootstrap is so antiquated. It is also far from easy, and even if you learn a lot about bootstrap is will not make your project suddenly look good. Not to mention the container system is one of the most confusing things I have ever seen, but maybe that is just me.

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What would you recommend in its place? I’ve been using bootstrap for any web side projects of mine mostly for its ability to flex and handle multiple devices sizes and also because its defaults look passable out of the box.

I agree containers are confusing but honestly making a custom web app look good on all resolutions/aspect ratios is complicated in my opinion.

Not OP, but I recommend using plain css. With the grid layout and flexbox it has become pretty easy to create something decent and learning flexbox and grid isn't hard. Grid works basically the same as Bootstrap: split a page in parts and tell each element how many parts they can use. But with gird you don't to split your page in 12 part, but can choose for yourself how many you want. Flexbox is rid, but for things you want to arrange 1d instead of 2d.

However, if you know how to work with Bootstrap, I don't see a reason to learn something else for side projects, if you want to minimize the effort you put into front end stuff. It might not be ideal, but it's good enough imo.

Plain CSS is missing the main feature of these libs, which is simple-as-crud components that match visually and help you build out pages that have the UI patterns users expect.

I second using vanilla css. Vanilla css is a lot easier to understand than bootstrap imo. Vanilla css + HTML5 is good enough for pretty much any web page.

Yup. Learning basic web platform technologies is the best investment too. They're not going away, ever. (Comparend to the currently fancy libraries/frameworks). And it will help you understand all the things built on top of the web platform.

Try Tachyons. I’m playing with it for a new project and liking it a lot so far.

I like to start with Skeleton CSS or similar, strip out all the column stuff, and just rely on grid and flexbox to build the layout.

Bulma is great for starting :)

At most use the Bootstrap grid system. Roll your own component styles, particularly if you're trying to sell whatever you're building as a product. Otherwise, your project will lack identity. I'm more sensitive to it than most because of my background, but if I see an app using Bootstrap defaults, it negatively affects my opinion.

That said, the Bootstrap 4 defaults are much more modern looking than Bootstrap 3's.

Bootstrapping a proof of concept, or a very early version of an app, definitely is still very much relevant. Bootstrap aids in this. And I think it is widely accepted that if you have an app that you'll eventually scale it needs to be refactored out. But for that initial POC, bootstrap away!

I disagree. Bootstrap is not that hard and the template wrappers make ui ux much easier for a backend person.

You can use Boostrap's "grid only" option. Which gives you a FlexBox based 12-column grid, and none of the styling. I think it's a pretty good option for people who want custom styling, but don't want to reinvent the wheel for a grid.

What would you recommend instead?

Note the criterion here is speed, not modernity or aesthetics.

Edit: by speed, I mean speed of development, or ease of development.

Speed? Do it yourself, you only add what you need, no need to bloat the styles with anything you're not going to use.

I've been designing barely acceptable web UIs for my side projects for 17 years now and I think this is poor advice.

I've found that bootstrap remains the best option to create a reasonably responsive, simple layout that is still quite usable on mobile as much as on the desktop, with no more than an hours' worth of work. And you don't even need to know css really.

I've used vanilla CSS and HTML and even after hours of amateur effort the site always looks like it came from the 90s. I don't have the time to worry about what font family I want to use, is that too much to ask?

Bulma is easy to understand and very fast to start using.

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