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Comment by msie | Hacker News Reader

It's sad how this has become a fact because it's insinuated enough times in the press by the same few reporters. First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. Now, it's all these foreigners are laundering their money. Yes, a few (although the RCMP is having trouble with their money laundering case) but not all. The press simplifies and that becomes the reality that everyone believes. I had a coworker mention this "fact" after hearing it on the radio. Ugh. Reminds me of the weapons of mass destruction debacle.

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Though it's not. There is a property management company out of Hong Kong/China that owns 30 condos in my unit and rents it out to tenants. I work near One Bloor and if you see the demographic over there it's all non-english speaking Asian people. Heck the Nordstorm rack in that Condo accepts WePay. Where else have you seen that in Toronto?

All statistics point to it being false.

From the financial post (https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/perception-of...):

A study from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation released Wednesday found that 68 per cent of Vancouver respondents, 48 per cent of Toronto respondents and 42 per cent of Montreal respondents believe foreign buyers are having "a lot of influence" on their markets and are driving up home prices.

The insight into perceptions around foreign buyers that 30,000 respondents in the three cities shared with the Crown Corporation between September and mid-October is in stark contrast with recent data from Statistics Canada showing foreign buyers only own 4.8 per cent of Vancouver properties and 3.4 per cent of homes in Toronto.

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The truth is that we're house horny enough to not need any outside help to increase the price of real estate. According to Statistics Canada, 69.0% of households are owner (https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-0...). While anecdotal data can be comforting, the data doesn't support the thesis.

While I'm sympathetic to the claim that foreign buyers didn't influence the price significantly, the ~5% ownership figure is surprisingly high. I wonder what portion it is in other cities, ones that aren't complaining.

So i read the highlights of the statcan link you posted.

a) it's from 2011, that's 7 years ago. b) Just being house owners doesn't mean a lot. There are non-Canadians (neither PR nor Citizens) buying condo's/houses with 35+% downpayment. Our government allows that, which is kind of mind boggling. You'll see a lot of international students living in condo's that their parents have bought.

I know this is unrelated point, but also effing Airbnb has screwed up the market for renters/first time home buyers.

I don't know which Stats Canada statistics the Financial Post article refers to (I'm sure they have more than one measure), but here's Stats Canada putting non-resident ownership at over 7% in Vancouver (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/180625/dq180...).

Whatever the exact number is, I don't think you can draw a conclusion just from that measure alone. The percentage of total properties owned by non-residents is less important than the percentage of recent sales that went to non-residents.

Some completely made up and simplified numbers to illustrate my point:

Let's say 10% of all properties in Vancouver have been sold on the market in the last 8 years, and 25% of those went to foreign buyers. That would only account for an increase in 2.5% of non-resident ownership. That by itself doesn't sound significant, but 25% of all sales going to buyers many of which are price insensitive is going to have a massive effect on prices.

> Heck the Nordstorm rack in that Condo accepts WePay.

To be fair, I think all Nordsrom's in Canada accept WePay now. WePay is accepted in Nordrsom's Ottawa as well

> First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false.

How was it proven false?

The market impact appears to be negligible. At least not as large as factor as implied or popularly claimed.

To convey the spirit of your parent, is there any credible source? Remember china has a huge media manipulation budget.

Is there any credible source the other way around?

How many foreign nationals own property in Vancouver? How many of those properties are unoccupied? I can't remember where I spotted reporting on those two questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the city publishes real estate transaction data such that the number of foreign purchases can be gathered. I remember a very small portion reported.

Google is your friend. Metro Vancouver has 9.2% of unoccupied homes and Vancouver itself has 8.2%, them being highest and second highest in Canada. Chinese drug mafia also allegedly moved more than $5bn through flipping properties in Vancouver.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/06/24/in-one-of-west-...

It's strange that owners would let the homes go vacant rather than rent them via a property manager. While the article seemed well-researched, one missing bit was who purchased the mansions they kept mentioning. They knew the builder, so perhaps they could have asked.

Is it though? Some of them just want to move their money outside of China incase something happens and they don't really care about anything else. While renting them via a property manager is a better financial decision, i'm don't know if you they care about it that much they are paying $x above asking price. Also, this might be their vacation home.

Yes, making a poor financial decision is strange when it's so easy (on the face of it) to make a better choice.

Just to remind you that a 1000 something square ft apartment in Shanghai's perimeters costs like 5 million rmb, that's 50 times the average income there, and in better areas, it easily costs 10 or 20 millions plus.

Think about it.

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