Android devices outselling iOS by 2:1 in US (q3) | Hacker News Reader

Android devices outselling iOS by 2:1 in US (q3)

computerworld.com

26 pointsanigbrowl35 comments

I find it a bit disappointing that posts like this frequently turn into some kind of 'android vs iphone' fight. I appreciate everyone has their own favourite technologies but a comment with well reasoned analysis makes far better reading in my humble opinion.

To all those complaining about the article title:

a) Yes, you are correct that the article itself only talks about iPhones, not all iOS devices. The title here is wrong and should be corrected.

b) A quick Google search found Apple sold 14.1m iPhones, 9m iPods, 4.19m iPads in Q4 2010[1]. If Android Phones (devices?) outsold iPod 2:1, then Android still outsold iOS - although one might argue that ~1 million difference is possibly within the error bounds of the research.

The only thing that is unclear is if things like the Dell Streak and Samsung Tab are counted as "smartphones" for the purposes of this research. If they aren't then the lead Android has in Q4 shipped units increases slightly. Either way, I'm not sure these devices are shipping in significant enough numbers to move the results much.

[1] http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/apple-q4-2010...

The title of the link is mis-leading, it isn't Android devices, but Android handsets (smartphones) that are outselling iPhone devices (smartphones).

These statistics do not cover, iPod Touches, iPads, Android Tablets, Android TV devices etc etc etc etc. Adjust your reality filter accordingly.

Do they even factor in that you can get the iPhone one place and Android in a thousand?

I'm curious what that tells you? Or at least what information you looking to derive.

If I was a carrier, I may care how which handset is more profitable to sell, which once is in more demand, etc, based on what my network and my competitors sell. As an application developer you may care about how well the various Android market systems perform compare to the iPhone market place. Additionally as a developer you may care about the install base, or target demographics of that install base.

I don't understand what factoring the number of sales channels (?) compared to sale volumes will give you statistically. (I'm always willing to be enlightened, I'm a developer by trade, so stats/biz dev is not my primary focus)

[edit:]

Additional thought, the rate of introduction of new smartphones on the Android vs rate of new iPhone releases. Conversely the iPhone introduced June 24th, will primarily show up on the Q3 sales figures (in the US).

Did you even read the article? A good third of it was discussing the distribution chain, and how Android is taking sales from RIM because they are typically sold in the same places.

HN article title is wrong - article mentions only the iPhone numbers, not those for all iOS devices (iPhone+iPod Touch+iPad).

But the iPod touch and iPad are not phones, and only a subet of the iPads have the ability access 3G cellular networks. And i doubt any statistically significant number of iPad 3G users are using the device in place of a phone.

Er, what? The title reads "Android devices outselling iOS 2:1 in the US", but that's not what the linked article claims and supports. iPhones, which is what the article talks about, are a subset of iOS devices.

According to the article, Android phones are outselling iPhones, but there is no data in the article to support the claim that all Android devices are outselling iOS as a whole. The title here on HN is incorrect.

The title is even doubly wrong. Not only does the article only talk about iPhones, it also only compares them to Android phones (not Android tablets or Android devices in general).

My guess is that like many articles, the title is not written by the author. My comment was targeted toward the article content, not the 1-line headline, which is quite often just link bait these days.

That doesn't mean that Android is outselling iOS, though: the title doesn't mention phones anywhere, it says "devices".

This will be a curious trend to look at next year after the iPhone is available on Verizon in the US.

The iPhone also seems targeted toward a tech-savvy buyer who is not price averse. I see Android handsets on outdated software being offered as free phones, and of course available on multiple carriers.

The underlying tone of all these comparison stories is (I think) about the leading platform in terms of development and market share. Which user is likely to spend more on apps over time? The user who had no problems laying down hundreds of dollars for a premium handset (and likely upgrading multiple times), or the user who got into a much cheaper handset on a lower budget carrier? You could argue it both ways, does saving money on the handset equal more budget for apps? Or are users who won't pony up for the premium phone also unwilling to pay 2 or 3 bucks for some games and fart apps?

Does anyone know the numbers on 'premium' Android handset sales figures?

What is your definition of "premium"?

HTC Incredible, Droid 2/X, etc. Android devices running, or with an upgrade path to 2.2 and beyond, a rough example.

Latest figures I saw (recorded Google I/O presentation on Android game development, the "redux" speech by Chris Pruett) 30% ran 2.2 back in June.

They went from zero to 30% in 10 months:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-62tRHLcHk

I watch the mobile industry religiously; my biases are firmly with the cross-platform side of things. I want Palm, Google and MS to compete shoulder to shoulder so that we (developers) may win; I hate Fascism with a vengeance!

But so far, nothing even comes close to the R2D2 look-alike. The green robot is just gorgeous, it doesn't hurt that it's Free (as in speech.)

Android, like I said before, is as open to you as your mother's arms. Grok it! Fork it! Code for it! It's all yours :-)

For some people who don't want an expensive cell contract, or for some reason need to carry a different phone, the iPod Touch is a great way to get in on a modern mobile OS. Those have to count big to developers, since iPod Touch owners are just as likely to use and buy apps (if not maybe more so since they're likely offline more, so the browser and webapps are less useful).

What's really amazing is that there's no <$200 Android powered iPod Touch competitor. There's a market gap there in my opinion ... I think every smartphone OS should have a non-cellular device as well.

For something as personal as a mobile phone. I am not surprised.

For a start, not everyone wants a phone everyone else have. And since Apple only come out with one model of iPhone every year, well...

Are people surprised by this? I mean I'm wondering why this is news. iOS is locked to first-party hardware, rather than the Android route, so I'm curious as to what's so surprising about this. Perhaps I'm missing something (would not be the first time on HN).

All the android phones on all the carriers outsell 1 phone on 1 carrier....what a surprise.

I want to see the updated data on what % of app dollars are spent on what OS today.

I don't disagree with your central point, but it's worth noting that in the UK the iphone is on many carriers and is being heavily outsold by Android phones.

For completeness, do you have a source? I'd heard the opposite, and would like to avoid misrepeating this in the future.

I honestly would like see a citation/source too.

[Warning: anecdote masquerading as data ahead] I've been in London for a couple of months now, and travel by the Tube daily (primarily the Piccadilly and District lines, fwiw). In the commute, at the workplace, or simply just walking around, I see more iPhones than Androids. Way, WAY more, about an order of magnitude more! I often joke to my friends back in India that if H2G2 was set in modern day London, then Ford Prefect would've been named Apple iPhone instead.

My experiences agree, BUT, London is not representative of the UK as a whole.

Also, people on commuter tubes into central London are not even representative of all the people in London.

Also, if anything, I think I still see more Blackberries than iPhones or Androids.

Also, people on commuter tubes into central London are not even representative of all the people in London.

I find that interesting, care to elaborate? I was under the impression the LU is the lifeline of London (from my admittedly brief stay here). Maybe you could drop me an email, seeing as how OT this seems...

I hate the 'dick waving' that goes on with this stuff from either side of the aisle:

---

Apple fans (now): Quantity ensures quality. You can't have a decent AppStore without X million apps.

Android fans (now): Quality over quantity! It's better to have an AppStore with quality apps than it is to have one with a large number of apps that aren't quality!

---

Apple fans (when Android's AppStore has more apps than Apple's AppStore): Quality over quantity! It's not quantity that matters, it's the quality of the apps!

Android fans (when Android's AppStore has more apps than Apple's AppStore): Quantity over quality! Because our App store has more apps than yours it ensures that there are more quality apps!

---

Apple fans (when iPhones outsell Android phones): Android phones will never outsell iPhones. The iPhone is much more intuitive, and the 'mendicants' could never figure out an Android phone it's just too complex. Normal people will never go for a phone that has font kerning that is off by 2 pixels! Besides, just look at the iPhone sales numbers!

Android fans (when iPhones outsell Android phones): But we're not offered on enough networks yet! And our phone is more quality!

---

Apple fans (when Android phones outsell iPhones): But the iPhone is only sold from a single carrier! It's not fair to compare numbers! Besides, the iPhone is a better quality product!

Android fans (when Android phones outsell iPhones): Look at the numbers! We beat you! Nah-nah! Android phones outsell iPhones!

I was dick waving? I was underwhelmed with the title of the post, acting like it was surprising that 1 phone was being outsold by 24.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you, but your post spawn my thought, so I made it a reply.

How is not relevant? Your arguing that "Big surprise Windows (from many different OEM's) outsells OS X (on one)". Yet that obviously has ridiculously huge consequences to the overall markets.

As a developer you can (more or less) release one product that runs on these phones. So those aggregate sales numbers certainly matter a lot.

I've long thought that this feels like Mac vs PC part II, and it's certainly looking that way.

If there was only 1 mac sold, the argument would be analogous.

There are several different macs sold however, to fit many different types of of applications, from the mini to the 17 inch powerbook.

My argument is that it's strange to see the headline "Android phones outsell Apple phones 2:1 in the US" when there is 1 phone (on a single carrier, the more important point in my opinion) for sale vs a couple dozen. The headline "Android phones combined only sell 2x as many as iPhones being sold", or "Vendors sell 100% more android phones per month than Apple does". I mean, a HUGE percentage of apple phones are sold right after macworld. Q3 numbers are especially deceptive because all the people who bought their post-macworld iPhones in Q2 of course don't need to buy another.

Additionally, you have to look at: > "Much of Android's quarterly share growth came at the expense of RIM, rather than Apple," said Ross Rubin, executive director at NPD

The article title is misleading: iOS as a smartphone platform is still growing, just slower than android is. iOS as a platform (including iPodTouch and iPad), is growing faster than android is on all devices, however android is gaining parity in the number of smartphones are.

I want this to end up more like 30/30/30/various%. It makes for more apps and more consumer choice. I just think the article portrays this like android is eating apple, when actually, apple and android are eating blackberry and winmo 6.5, and android merely eating more of it in the quarter least likely to see strong growth from Apple.

I mean, http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010111.html doesn't really fit that well with the idea Android is now beating Apple. It's not, it is however catching up to apple this particular quarter.

Selling twice as many piles of low quality, poorly designed phones as premium ones is still selling twice as much garbage. At the end of the day, just because you sell more doesn't mean your product is better. This is proof of that.

From a business perspective, Android manufacturers need to sell many, many more devices in order to even come close to Apple's profitability.

Look at how well Apple is able to not just manufacture their devices, but also design chips, main boards, visual and function design, create excellent software with profoundly amazing developer frameworks, and run meaningful marketing campaigns... all while turning an incredible profit margin.

Google and its manufacturing partners are simply not producing high grade and thoughtful products. So until they do, who really cares about it "outselling iOS 2:1".

You are sorely mistaken, my friend.

You and I will never be in a position to sell a successful mobile handset[1], so let's just focus on the app development and sales.

In terms of ease of use, we can use whatever tool we're most comfortable with to develop for Android: C, C++, Java, Flash, C#, Python, Scheme, Ruby, etc. and we have guaranteed approval. Neither Google nor other alleged gatekeepers can dick with our right to publish software. Even if we choose to give it away for free, users can download our apps and install on their Android phones without anybody knowing about it, getting a cut or messing with them. "adb install MyApp.apk" is a birth right on Android, bless the beautiful platform!

For a developer, Android is multitasking, garbage collected, and modern, almost to a fault. You can tweak it to your liking, as much as you want. And should you choose to, you can build it from sources and deploy it on your new exotic board that nobody has ever heard of.

At this point, Android is bigger than the efforts of all the carriers and handset creators, combined. What Android can do is only limited by your imagination, skill, and budget. Nothing is stopping you from developing a new mobile handset that puts the iPhone to shame (and many have done this) and loading Android with it.

Instead of finding fault in specific Android deployments or handsets, ask yourself: what do I want to do with Android?

This thing is bigger than a movement, it's a tsunami wave standing a mile tall: I want to ride it, I want you to ride it. Let's put our creativity together and make use of this thundering power. Or stand in its way to be crushed.

[1] Unless we use Android or Maemo, which are Free Software :-)

I never said I wanted to be in the handset business.

And frankly, there's not much money to be made in making Android apps. Android's "openness" lends to users thinking apps are not worthy of purchasing, so few paid apps are actually doing well on the Android Market. In most cases, it costs more to build an Android app than it's worth.

I get that Android is huge. It's a nice second rung. But it suffers from countless flaws (UX and UI, market profitability for devs, device fragmentation, etc).

If Android is so great, why has every single handset that I've used, including the one I own, drag and stutter when I slide my finger on various screens?

iOS is flawless in this way. There are apps that don't tune their views on both platforms, but only on Android do I consistently see this drag in the OS itself.

Nice. Down modded for pointing out the truth. Seems there are some folks here in denial about Apple's ability to handle the entire workflow and design/manufacturing process.

You don't need to be an Apple fanboy to see that Apple has got a better thing going, even if they do lose market share.

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