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Comment by zjaffee | Hacker News Reader

They didn't block it on any known Environmental grounds, CEQA exists to insure major infrastructure projects evaluate many options and attempt to find the most environmentally friendly option. In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a privately owned and built tunnel.

I'd also add that the use of concrete in tunneling does have a large environmental impact as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concre...), so cheap tunneling wouldn't necessarily improve the environment in any clear way. The best solution for the environment will always be electric powered rail lines that are at grade, although that would be a poor choice from a transportation planning stand point.

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> In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a privately owned and built tunnel.

A metro rail line can't transport a car, so point-to-point transit is out, as is any semblance of privacy. Why are you so quick to devalue these advantages?

If Musk can build a tunnel profitably, he should be able to do it, even if the opinion of people like you, mass transit would be preferable. Musk isn't willing to fund mass transit, but he is willing to fund a tunnel, so all you get by blocking the tunnel is neither mass transit nor a tunnel. Congratulations!

He can’t build it profitably, or at least without going through the environmental impact review that every other project of this scale must pass. Do you really think the hole digging is the bottleneck for every other underground project?

How much infrastructure is getting built under the current review process? The current process is just a fig leaf for everyone getting a NIMBY veto. California ought to be ashamed of its technological paralysis.

It's not a technological problem. If people get unhappy when Facebook "moves fast and breaks things" in its mission to "connect the world", then people should be just as cautious when it comes to construction projects that impact miles of public infrastructure and thousands of private homes.

Sure I mean bad (insert bad thing) things are bad. And a risk to private homes should stop a project. But I can’t find any proof that there’s a risk here. Tunneling is really safe.

Then why is Boring declining to take part in the EIR process?

You’d probably have to ask Elon Musk. I also haven’t read the lawsuit so I don’t know what specifically the homeowners wanted investigated. California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything, so why bother trying to be innovative there in the first place? I think the software industry only evolved there because nobody had figured out how to regulate a bit yet.

California software companies are still subject to the same taxes and standard of state employment laws.

California's high speed rail has been subject to the same scrutiny and legal threats. Was Boring/Musk completely ignorant of well-known past precedent and hurdles when they claimed they could build a transportation project for much cheaper? As recently as 1 month ago, Musk still thought and publicly claimed that the tunnel "opens Dec 10": https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1054164838430064640

I think Elon Musk knows that if there's something big to be gained for society the laws can be modified. For instance Tesla only worked because the Obama administration kind of bent the laws of economics by securing a huge loan to the company.

> California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything

No, it doesn't.

> But I can’t find any proof that there’s a risk here.

Of course not, Boring pulled out rather than go through the process that would evaluate any risks.

> Tunneling is really safe.

Then there was no reason to avoid environmental review.

In theory there’s going to be a high speed train built between SF and LA. Not convinced it can happen, or should happen at the price these property owners have made the project incur.

9 miles of infrastructure is getting built right this second under the current review process.

https://www.metro.net/projects/westside/

> How much infrastructure is getting built under the current review process?

The environmental review process doesn't stop a lot of infrastructure getting built, people prioritizing public spending on other priorities does.

> The current process is just a fig leaf for everyone getting a NIMBY veto.

No, it's not.

> California ought to be ashamed of its technological paralysis.

Perhaps, but CEQA isn't the source of the problem, to the extent there is one.

There is an actual big boy tunnel getting built on The Westside right this second. No waiting on Musk's bullshit required.

Because the purpose of mass transit is to increase throughput, a super highway tunnel for cars will just lead to more congested streets around the entrance the same way wider highways have done.

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