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Comment by onion2k | Hacker News Reader

doing business with the second largest economy in the world isn't an expendable venture

Google could continue to operate profitably without doing business in China, so what makes your statement true?

Businesses are not in the business of simply being profitable, they are usually in the business of increasing revenue and profits beyond the current state.

Nothing about my question suggests Google wouldn't be able to continue to grow by focusing on the 80% of the world that isn't China.

China may be the lowest-hanging fruit of the search and ad market, but surely you're not suggesting Google would shy away from a challenge and only go for the easy win? That doesn't sounds like the Google we all know.

I'd say it sounds exactly like the google we know.

People want a messenger app? Let's make one! Oh, it takes time and energy. Let's shut it down. Oh wait, people want a messenger app. Let's make one. Oh, it takes [........]

If I was a business I would avoid low hanging fruits in favor or more risky ventures that are perhaps less likely to succeed or yield profit. Businesses are in the business of business, not in the business of tacking hard problems just to spite the rest of the world. I think the image of Google being this almighty good intentioned soul is over blown because at the end of the day they answer to share holders, they profit of advertisement and the rest of it is ice cream that goes on their advertisement cake. I love google for the services they provide me but I also am not naive that a business is going got be a business first and a good hearted soul last.

Is there even a market for Google? The median income in China is like $12k, and most Chinese net worth is tied up in property that's widely considered to be in a massive bubble. Not sure it would be profitable at all for Google. I work in the industry and we don't even waste our time in China, Russia, etc, since the advertising dollars are worthless.

The amount of additional profit Google can extract from an existing consumer pales in comparison to the profits generated from attracting a new user.

I don't think this is true. The stock market demands their hockey stick. If Google doesn't go after the Chinese market, their stock value will suffer.

It's all about returning as much money to investors as possible. Period. Otherwise you suffer the consequences.

Amazon specifically does not do the last part of your decree, and their stock price seems to be pretty good.

...as long as their revenue keeps increasing.

AMZNs stock price isn't driven by current earnings, but it isnt driven by investor magnanimity either. It's all about the promise of future earnings. If revenues flatline or decline, you can expect their stock prices to fall in line with their peers.

This is a universal argument for doing anything that makes a profit in the short term. Usually, apologists for corporate immorality bring up fiduciary duty, as if it explains and justifies things. But the argument falls apart if you poke at it even a little, because it completely omits the other side of the argument.

Why doesn't Google start a restaurant chain, or start making PCs, or selling servers, or licensing software defined networking stacks to other companies, or monetize many of their other assets? Surely they must if they're supposed to make as much money for their investors as possible?

Why don't they sell search data on individuals to repressive regimes, so people can be hunted down, imprisoned, tortured and executed? Would make some decent coin for investors, I expect, lots of repressive governments would probably pay a pretty penny for it.

How about selling searches emanating from US government IPs to the Kremlin, selling tracking data linked to Google accounts, or otherwise monetizing espionage interests?

The problem with doing these things is that it affects the value of the Google brand, both internally to employees and externally to customers. If you can't hire the best employees or encourage customers to trust your software and services, then long or even short term decline is pretty much assured.

And how about swapping cause and effect? You're positing the tail should wag the dog - that the stock market should control what the company does. How about the stock market chooses to invest in companies that are doing things that it believes will make money? From this perspective, the company is free to do whatever, and investors are free to sell the stock if they don't agree. In truth, there's a mutual dependence here - the company can't just fraudulently give away investors' cash, but likewise, if investors knew what was best for companies, we wouldn't need CEOs or leadership of any kind - we'd just advertise choices to the investors / market and go with whatever pushes up the stock most.

I agree, but there is an extent to which these companies by law are forced to operate against the positive value of their brand [0]; see Dodge vs. Ford Motor Co. I realize it's not the same, just that there's some amount of precedent.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

And there's been pushback from subsequent cases, from that very article:

The general legal position today is that the business judgment that directors may exercise is expansive. Management decisions will not be challenged where one can point to any rational link to benefiting the corporation as a whole.

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