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Comment by m_mueller | Hacker News Reader

maybe an industry standard that works like AirPods pairing?

Maybe go back to the industry standard that worked well for 100+ years, the headphone jack.

CD drives worked well for 30 years. Why not bring them back to all our modern devices, too?

They were removed only when few people used them because there was a better alternative. Many, many people use headphones with 3,5 mm plugs and it is not at all clear that the alternative is better.

Well it is pretty clear that the alternative is at least satisfactory.

Because iPhone sales aren't dropping because of the headphone jack and people seem to be enjoying Bluetooth headphones given how popular those are.

Bluetooth was a step sideways. I like not having my cable get stuck under my chair wheels but holy fuck its annoying to use when you have multiple devices.

What's your source for the reason iPhone sales are dropping?

When you buy into Apple you are supposed to follow the trend. It has been the case since the earliest Macs. So it is not surprising that Apple followers simply do what Apple tells them to do and switch to wireless. I don't like it but it has value. Apple products tend to work quite well when used as intended.

As for sales dropping, smartphone sales do drop. Or at least, the upgrade cycles are becoming longer. It is mostly because phones are becoming "good enough" for many years, but the removal of the headphone jack may have played a tiny part.

But that is exactly my point: bluetooth is a better alternative to the headphone jack. In addition, fewer people use the headphone jack than people did one year ago.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then, because I find that there are zero advantages to Bluetooth in this case. I mean, wireless would be nice in an ideal world where there are no disadvantages, but for me, they are so hefty that it's never worth it.

It's just silly to claim bluetooth is better than the headphone jack. There are lots of reasons people use headphone jacks less. I can't buy a phone one with one, cause I want a recent better spec phone.

Apple removed the CD drive when it was still popular.

This was done with a replacement on hand which was more functional, more reliable, and easier to use. BT is not any of these things.

AirPods are more functional, just as reliable, and are just as easy to use.

Admittedly, far more expensive. But wired headphones come with iPhones

More functional than and just as reliable as what? There are thousands and thousands of headphone models with the standard plug, many of which are arguably much more functional and reliable.

I mean, I guess... Apple is always early when it comes to killing stuff. But as late as 2016 you could still buy a new MacBook Pro with a DVD drive.

Yes, but looking at Apple, Google, HTC, Samsung and recent history, I think it will come down to this: https://xkcd.com/927/ . I'm almost certain that whatever Apple developed for the Airpods will not be shared with other companies. And whatever other companies push forward as a "Standard" will not replace the Apple Solution in the near future. Even replacing apples crappy AFP Network Protocol took 13 years, until SMB finally took over in macOS Mavericks. And even then, they used their own implementation instead of the official "Standard" one.

I wouldn't be so sure - it will take years for sure, but industry has many times come up with decent standards in the past - ethernet, USB, PCI, just to give a few examples. Bluetooth as a network protocol also seems to be fine with its latest revisions, it's just the pairing that sucks - if Apple can do it on top of bluetooth I think others should also be able to.

> if Apple can do it on top of bluetooth I think others should also be able to.

they're only "doing it" with their own limited hardware combinations. the experience of pairing any random bluetooth devices even in ios is still mediocre overall.

Anecdata: I have 19 Bluetooth devices on my iPhone (gamepads, speakers, headphones + dongles, watches, etc.) - of which, I'd say, only one gives me trouble[1] and none really were problematic for pairing.

[1] Cricut Air but then it also has trouble talking Bluetooth reliably to my Windows 10 desktop; I'm not blaming this on iOS just yet.

Actually kind of curious about this.

Because I bought the Sony 1000MX3 and its pairing at least with one device is much faster and more reliable than Airpods. It definitely is worse with multiple devices however.

Anecdotally, Sony BT headsets are pretty good (I'm currently on my fourth set, I wear them out eventually).

In my personal experience they have decent sound, pair reasonably easily (through NFC and "normally"), and the connection is pretty stable.

Pairing partner were various Samsung Galaxies.

I recommend Sony BT headphones.

That said, I also use the 3.5mm jack regularly :-)

It's not just the pairing that sucks. Everything sucks, in every possible way (although pairing is the least problematic, in my personal case).

I have several BT devices, and I never know how they're going to work in the next month, when the next software update is going to be applied.

Ubuntu's BT stack (bluez) is well-known to be trash, however, I was surprised when my Android phone BT's stability took a dip after some "security" updates.

if Apple can do it on top of bluetooth

I think the heart of the problem lies here. It's the fact that we have to pay solid attention to the UI when we make these changes- and we have to care about the UX. This thread is focusing on bluetooth, but I had this experience when iOS updated their text-message interface. I guess there are more buttons to push now, but what is missing is being able to attach a photo that you've already taken by tapping an icon next to the text entry. Now that only opens a camera, and you have to go to the "lower level" to attach a pic that you've already taken.

No big deal, right? Now, if you were going to change your UI and add an icon that signifies attaching a photo, what would your icon look like? If you were going to hunt for one, what would you expect to look for? They use something that doesn't call to mind photographs in my mind[1]. It took me an annoying amount of time to figure out this change because I was in one of those situations I was trying to get the picture off quickly.

In fact, this whole trend of replacing labels with icon and having no mouseover fallback is a huge time-sink. Now, that might have been Apple's icon for a long time, but the fact is I never needed to know that before. It was in a place that was obvious (next to a camera or something, I really don't remember what it changed from).

I mean, am I seriously supposed to know what this means[2]?

[1] http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/photos-ap....

[2] https://boilingpointdev.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/game-cen...

Regarding SMB... there isn't an official "standard" implementation outside of Microsoft's walls.

Apple used to use Samba, but had to drop it in MacOS 10.7 when Samba switched from GPLv2 to GPLv3. I can't really fault them for making a change based on licensing concerns.

NFC pairing is a thing, used by a few Sony headphones. Android supports it.

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