The Shinkansen Story [video] | Hacker News Reader

The Shinkansen Story [video]

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113 pointsdsego62 comments

Really cool! I like it that the Japan generally is not given to the BS-till-you-make-it attitude of SV.

The spiritual successor to the 60s pioneering project, the Chuo Shinkansen, which is the result of proven technology developed over 30-40y continues to chugging away slowly and silently, at an estimated cost of $80B to connect Tokyo with Osaka (in '2037).

Musk's Hyperloop's on the otherhand is what you get from SV. BS vaporware, which would magically connect LA and SF at a mere $6B, with technology which hasn't even been invented yet! Even the current Shinkansen costs twice as much as this valuation (in India!).

The Chuo is Tokyo-Nagoya in 2027 and Tokyo-Osaka in 2045.

Could they make it earlier? Of course yes, but the amazing thing about Chuo Shinkansen is that it's 100% private (JR Central) money. The government did offer no-string-attached money to make it to Nagoya in time for 2020 Olympic and Osaka in 2025 [Expo] (this was back in '13), but JR Central declined. Japan population is declining so I guess nobody want to invest too much in case the return isn't as expected.

Agree that Hyperloop is ... hype. But you otherwise paint SV with too broad a brush with your "BS-till-you-make-it" comment.

I would go even further to say it's not even broad enough to reflect the general culture in the US.

Just rode the Shinkansen last month from Kyoto to Tokyo. Very enjoyable trip, except (like everything in Japan) at my height and size (190cm/6'3") it was a tick too small. Even in the green car.

That, and the annoying foot rest which takes up most of the space in front of you whether you need it or not were the only negatives. Awesome train (although the styling of the modern noses doesn't appeal to me at all) ride. Super smooth.

If you're going to be riding, don't dawdle getting off. You're expected to be at the door ready to get off when the train stops, if you wait, you'll be encountering passengers getting on, and the train doesn't stop long at the station.

p.s. Please don't get offended that I said Japan was a tick too small for me. It doesn't have to fit me, I don't live there. I was just making an observation. :)

Here's a short video of a train going through the station in Odawara.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qc4nlf6p9fhbdi0/IMG_1450.m4v?dl=0

> p.s. Please don't get offended that I said Japan was a tick too small for me. It doesn't have to fit me, I don't live there. I was just making an observation. :)

Why would anyone be offended? If you are 6'3", no place is accommodating for you. No train, bus, airplane, car or homes are built for you since you are not close to the average anywhere. This goes for whether you are too short or too tall or too fat or too skinny. Everything nowadays is built for the average. So you wouldn't feel comfortable anywhere.

People get offended (even here) at the drop of the hat... Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't being a western imperialist or that I expected the country to adapt to me. :)

I guess that’s the threshold then because at 188cm I found the shinkansen perfectly comfortable, even on long journeys (e.g. Tokyo to Hakodate). Maybe it’s because the foot rest folds up if you don’t want it by your feet :)

> (although the styling of the modern noses doesn't appeal to me at all) It isn't supposed to look good -- it just supposed to make things efficient.

> If you're going to be riding, don't dawdle getting off. Nozomi stops for 5 minutes at each station -- and at peak runs every three minutes.

I really enjoy being in Asia because finally everything is the right size for me. I'm a bit small, and I didn't notice before how everything in the west is slightly too big for me. A minor annoyance, sure, but what a relief when things finally fit!

I wonder what you really benefitted in Asia in that regard. Having more roomy space doesn't sound bad and I'm sure clothing won't have shortage of varying sizes.

Having more room doesn't look good (most cases). A closer fit will always look better.

One simple thing: Chairs are usually just a few cm too high. As a result, all the weight of my lower legs is on the part just above the knee and sitting normally is quite uncomfortable and I usually just.. don't, and cross my legs to sit fully on top of the thing. (In formal settings, this is not acceptable however.) I recently flew with China Airlines (the Taiwanese one) and lo and behold, I could finally sit in an airplane normally. Not recommended for tall people, but very much so for shorter ones.

Workspaces in the kitchen or workshop are also just a few cm too high to work comfortably. In public transport, I often cannot reach the straps to hold on to from the top without being in very very uncomfortable stretch. Of course, if they were lower, other people would hit their heads, so it can't be helped.

It's these small things that are hard to set up in any other way (one size fits all) and someone will be inconvenienced at any setup. I'm not saying we should change things here to accommodate people my size. It's just really nice when things simply.. fit.

Woah what model of Shinkansen did you ride? Every trip I made on the Tokaido line had these wide rows large enough people can fit a luggage standing in front on their feet (and not in green cars). I'm 190cm too and Japan is the only country I've been able to ride trains (or highway buses) with that much room for the legs. Not every bus or train of course but otherwise it's as short as it would get in europe.

Agreed. 196 cm/6'5" here, and the only thing I found lacking was the width of the chairs on the Tokaido line (3+2 arrangement). I'm not sure what the pitch of the seats is, but I had plenty of leg room (much more than any train in the Netherlands anyway, let alone air planes).

If you ever find yourself in Japan with a rail pass, do use the free reservation option when traveling between Osaka and Kagoshima with the Sakura. That one has a 2+2 arrangement in the reserved seat cars, which makes for a more comfortable ride.

I do agree with things being quite small/low though, bumping my head at least a couple times a week.

The story of its long nose inspired by kingfisher that reduces tunnel booms. https://asknature.org/idea/shinkansen-train/

I'm about the same size as you and got pulled out of the Space Mountain line at Disneyland Tokyo and taken backstage to test if I'd fit in a carriage. Luckily I did, barely, and it was an interesting (if a little illusion-breaking) glimpse behind the curtain of the happiest place on Earth.

The Shinkansen is just so awesome. GF an I toured Japan last October and we did all inter-city travel by the Shinkansen, using a Japan-Rail pass, so you can just walk through the entry gates. The punctuality is also unparalleled. On a different train, we arrived well in time for departure, only to find the train was delayed! Oh noes! The guy at the counter walked up and off the walkway to our platform to personally excuse himself for the 15 minute delay. Of course, the train was exactly 15 minutes late.

I wish Europe would have this level of high-speed rail. I'm starting a remote job next year, traveling to the office twice month. That trip will cost me ca. 6hrs one-way but with a Shinkansen, maybe 3 hours. The continent would be so much more close-knit with such train service.

Europe could have that tomorrow, if it would really put its act together and regulate its train system more tightly. I did both a super-long distance commute (900km) bi-monthly and a regular daily commute (100km) using German trains for two years each. It was horrible. But with some proper coordination the network could become viable overnight: For example: Deutsche Bahn knows it unreliable even using their own weird definition of delays, but still they do noting to work with this information. Every time you book a train they will offer a journey with a time to switch trains below 5 or 10 Minutes, although the probability of reaching that is below two thirds.

I wish the US could have the level of European HSR.

We’ve spent 50 years explaining why it won’t work here and widening highways. Now to even acquire the land is incredibly expensive.

Now our dream is to go 700 mph so we can take the long way over cheaper land instead of directly at slower speeds.

Huh? A comfortable ride means the track needs to be straight - especially at high speeds.

A straight-ish track is a baseline requirement for high-speed, to maintain top speed (220mph in the most recent generation) you need a turn radius of a few miles.

That hasn't been strictly true since the tilting APT ran commercially in 1981. It was designed for sustained 160mph on 100mph line-curves.

The patents for the tilting mechanism were bought by FIAT who debugged the technology and it's now common on UK railways in the Pendolino trains.

Shame the Pendolinos very rarely (if ever) get up to full speed as our track maintenance and rail infrastructure in general is so poor.

The UK is also one of the most expensive places in the world to travel by rail, but that's a whole different story...

The best part is trains every 10 minutes or so. And so comfortable. I actually looked forward to the train journey.

Yep. Sort of the opposite of how we feel about plane flights. I would take a train to destinations within the U.S. if we had high-speed rail.

Can anyone explain unlike other countries how has the Shinkansen not crumbled like the trains in California or New York. Did they bet on the right technology early on and/or are they just better at upgrades ?

> Can anyone explain unlike other countries how has the Shinkansen not crumbled like the trains in California or New York.

Crumbled in what sense? Ridership?

BART Muni Caltrain all have a lot of delays and breakdowns. Some of them are also not safe to travel in (but this is besides the technical points.)

European countries have an interest in cutting down on the number of cars on the road. The Paris climate accord means that we all have to drastically cut CO2 emissions. Also European cities are suffering from air pollution.

This means that governments invest very heavily in trains and other mass transit. Trying desperately to keep cities livable and functional.

So… you're wondering if japan performs basic maintenance & rolling stock replacement?

Maintenance. Some countries invest a lot in active maintenance (Japan, Switzerland), some invest a bit (Germany, UK), some just don't or throw away their money (USA).

Service performance. Train ride in Japan is comfortable, fast, and on-time. (Highway in Japan has quite low speed limit that standard intercity train is faster on many routes)

Japanese train is quite expensive, but people feels that it's worth the money. Couple that with the fact that Japanese Taiheiyo belt is among the biggest, most densely populated area in the world, you can see where this is coming. At least 10 trains (14 on peak hour) of ~1300-seat, 400-meter-long Shinkansen trains depart Tokyo station for Nagoya/Osaka every hour from 6.00~24.00. It's even more frequent than subway service in many cities.

The fun thing about rail service is that maintenance cost does not go up very much with more train. So Shinkansen (especially the Tokaido Shinkansen) bring in a LOT of money, enough for the operating company (JR Central) to invest in building the new maglev Chuo Shinkansen all by itself.

Of course, local train lines outside major cities in in Japan are also struggling.

Owning a car is hard in Japan. There is generally no parking on any roads so you need a garage at home and parking off-street at work. Also, culturally, it is not seen as weird or cheap for a CEO to cycle to work, even in large enterprise companies. In the West, we are a little more status-driven by our vehicles I think ;-)

My take on HSR preferences, based on what I've personally experienced:

Japan=>Other Asian systems (Korea, China)> Europe (Italy, France, Germany, Spain) >>>U.S (Acela)

I am talking about the whole system, not just trains or ticketing or something specific.

Haven't been in any other countries' HSRs, so don't know.

Comparing Japan to China, the amazing thing is how organized the Japanese stations are. Being able to just walk on board a train that comes every 3 minutes is mind blowing.

I took high speed rail in China, and the one leg up China does have is the display showing the current speed! :)

Taiwan is very good too, and very affordable.

Also, be careful, just because a train is on your track 1-2 minutes before schedule doesn't mean it's yours... they put them close together and yours may be arriving exactly on time!

From personal experience, it's an easy mistake to make when you're running to make a connection... always check the number.

Anecdote: I was just in Japan and w/ a train-loving buddy, and he found the fastest in the country for us to take a ride (The Hayabusa line between Tokyo <-> Sendai).

Super fun! It tops out just over 200mph for a few stretches (obligatory screen cap from whatever GPS speedometer app I happened to download at the moment)[1]

We rode coach up to Sendai and First Class on the way back after a long day of wandering around. 1000% worth the experience if anyone is considering the adventure as part of a Japan trip.

[1] https://m.imgur.com/a/WBtSgJ6

If you know you're traveling to Japan and want to ride the Shinkansen, then definitely get a JR rail pass. They are good for a week (upto 3) of travel, but can pay for themselves in 1 or 2 rides. They're even good for travel within Tokyo on Yamanote and Chuo lines (and if your flight arrives in time for you to validate for the Narita Express or Haneda Monorail).

There are lots of places on-line to purchase, but the ticket must be delivered/picked-up outside of Japan and you must have a foreign passport/residence.

Also, the pass is only valid on the Kodama/Hikari (echo/light) trains, but not Nozomi (hope) which have fewer stops.

The real advantage of Green/1st class is that you can more easily book last munite at busy times without fear of the train being full.

Actually, they have a trial right now where you can buy the JR passes inside Japan. The cost is a little higher compared to buying abroad. The foreign passport and short-term visa requirements still remain.

I actually framed my JR Pass when I got home.

small self-deprecating anecdote:

after I landed in Narita for the first time, I rode the Narita Line into Tokyo.

I, coming from the US, was absolutely amazed at the cleanliness and super-fast speed of the train, which I assumed must be a bullet train because we were traveling so much faster than I had ever traveled by train before.

Imagine my surprise when I found out it was just the regular train line, and the bullet train is a whole different beast...

"Maximum speed 130 km/h (80 mph)" (Wikipedia)

That's slower than the airport express trains for several European airports I'm familiar with (London Heathrow, London Gatwick, Stockholm, Oslo), which is unexpected. However, it's probably a lot cheaper than any of them.

Narita Express is among the expensive train in Japan though. Narita Airport to Tokyo station cost JPY2820 (~$25).

130km/h is the maximum speed any train can operate on a line with level crossing designated by Japanese law. But in Japan a lot of train can maintain near maximum speed throughout its journey, unlike what I have seen in the Europe.

Imagine if the US had leaders obligated to resign when projects ran overbudget.

Politics needs more skin in the game overall.

What love about the Shinkansen, at least Tokyo <-> Osaka is that it leaves every 5-10 minutes so I never make reservations. I just casually go when I feel like it, shop outside for a snack, then go in and get a ticket at a machine and hop on the next train.

This is something I can't do with planes as well as you have to book in advance, get there early, check in, get inspected, line up to board. Filling plane seems to take 15 to 30 minutes. Filling the train takes 2-3 mins. And of course the train drops me off in the center of town, not 30 to 90 minutes outside of town like most airports.

There's a couple of seasons where getting a seat or getting 2 seats together might take more planning but most of the time taking the Shinkansen feels no different than taking any local train or subway in terms of prep which makes it super easy to use. It's a little expensive, $240-$350 round trip (free seating->reserved seating->1st class) but I've still made impulse trips for various events deciding on the same day that, yea, ok, let's go!

I will say China's bullet trains are amazing as well but booking/tickets are not nearly as smooth.

Both Mustard and Brilliant look really cool. In fact in this video I wasn't sure at times whether the footage was CGI or real, testament to how good rendering is these days.

I think it's rendered in a game engine, possibly Unity. The whole video appears to be put together in a game engine.

Here's another nice video about Shinkansen origin story from a video series I enjoy ("Begin Japanology"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHCl8z47bL0

The next generation Shinkansen will begin testing around May next year (2019). The ‘Alfa-X’ is expected to travel faster than 400 km/h (360 km/h with passengers)

note: The fastest commercial train in the world is Shanghai’s maglev train (431km/h) which uses magnetic levitation.

- https://plus.google.com/117929795458007747856/posts/iVaesHMc... - https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/alfa-x-shinkansen-bullet-trai...

There are a couple of high def web cams of busy Japanese lines just outside stations, that stream live on YouTube (with good sound, as well). (Unfortunately, the recent typhoon took out the one by the Italian Park in Tokyo.)

I've found I can watch those for hours. I've thought of putting a TV in my office and just leaving one or the other on as background.

They also remind me a bit of one or two domestic market contemporary Japanese films that have featured trains prominently.

I guess it's probably mostly just a one-off amalgam of experiences that exists in my head. But enjoyable.

P.S. You watch one of these, and -- as a foreigner -- you realize just how many of the high speed trains are running each hour, each day.

Can you please link to these? I'd love to say my kid would enjoy these, but who are we kidding? I'd love them too.

Yeah, I didn't, in my first comment. I guess I was a bit afraid if they got popular they'd "go away" or something -- even though they are "buffered" by YouTube.

This one is still working:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8LY9oqqzXM

looking SE towards the north end and east side of Shin Osaka station:

https://goo.gl/maps/LqVgRHNWu7H2

The following one has been down since the typhoon. I haven't tried reaching out -- I don't make comments on YouTube -- but if it's a matter of the cost of replacement, I wonder whether the person it belongs to would be interested in donations to pay for its replacement. I rather enjoyed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-Aw9t1VC8

Located across the street and tracks (and the other street) from Italy Park, looking to the SE:

https://goo.gl/maps/2154UmjBYu72

P.S. For the Osaka location, once in a while you'll see a commercial jet's shadow approach and cross the forefield. 2 pm local time, or sometimes an hour either way of that, has seemed to be the time for that, this fall.

Thanks!

Crazy to know this train appeared so early.

I'm also quite curious about the recent US regulation that was dropped about wagon weight. Could not understand how this regulation made sense.

It seemed interesting, but narration is very slow. :(

2x speed doesnt help?

Aw.

Some of the Shinkansen technology came from BART, which was being built around the same time. Active suspension, all wheel electric drive with electronic controls, and automatic train control all started with BART. Now everybody has those features.

Can I have source? According to Wikipedia BART began construction in 1964, the year Shinkansen open. Sanyo Shinkansen, the extension to Hakata, open in 1972, months before BART open.

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