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Comment by tejohnso | Hacker News Reader

Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? The parent said nothing about being in pain. The parent posted a completely rational statement. Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action and that this person needs help of some kind.

Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.

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> Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing?

No. "compassionate" is the description I would use.

> The parent said nothing about being in pain.

They repeatedly used the word "suffering".

> The parent posted a completely rational statement.

Not really, no.

> Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action

There is.

> and that this person needs help of some kind.

They do.

> Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior.

But in the majority of cases, it is a dysfunctional behavior.

> There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide,

Very few, really.

> and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.

The absolute number may be large, but a tiny fraction of the number of people who consider suicide for irrational reasons.

As you’ve already conceded that there are few but existing rational reasons to commit suicide, the next question is who gets to decide what reason is rational and what gives them the right to decide that for someone else?

That is indeed a difficult question. I doubt a perfect answer is possible. Existing suicide-assisting organizations e.g. in Switzerland typically rely on individual assessments based on extended dialogue with the person wishing assistance and their doctor.

We could start with "Do at least 1/3 of the population think it's justified?" I believe that puts depression on the "no" side and painful terminal illness on the "yes" side with extremely large margins. Work from there to refine the criteria.

The comment did not feel even slightly "compassionate": it felt like a cold, dispassionate template, the kind of thing read off by someone who knew they should care but didn't _really_, followed by a phone number.

Part of what makes it so _not_ compasssionate is how "lazy" the thought is; FWIW, so far _no one_ in this discussion of this issue has mentioned the OP's website: there is essentially a suicide note on it right now, claiming they have already died. The attached blog is all about suicide, and goes into their issue.

They have a protected Twitter account, a deleted Facebook, apparently Google+ (is that still a thing?), LinkedIn, GitHub, and Instagram... I have sent a message via Instagram (but the account is empty, so maybe entirely unused and abandoned).

Do you mean the website of Mikita Brottman, the author of the attached article? I viewed her website and I didn't see the suicide note. Can you link please?

No: the person whose comment started this thread, the comment with the suicidal fringe to it which caused someone else to leave the "call this hotline" comment which then led to the argument that led to my comment.

https://intralizee.com/

Note: the person did not respond to me on Instagram.

Compassionate? It reads like an automated message that scans for suicide related words and posts a generic text with the hotline number.

> Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing?

Yes, though not at all for the reasons you stated. The canned suicide hotline/cheery bullshit/"you can talk to me if you're sad!1!" is absolutely awful, and not usually what a depressed person talking about their depression on the internet needs to hear. It shuts down the conversation in a way that no one can reasonably argue with, and gets the well meaning asshole who copy pasted a few phone numbers into a text box a bunch of internet points, and little else.

It's true that this sort of direct approach is likely ineffective for many depressed people, but it is also unlikely particularly detrimental.

As someone who has fixated on and attempted suicide in the past, I now feel like that decision would have been a grave mistake. So I am glad things like the Suicide Prevention Hotline exist and are advertised by smug internet assholes because I think they do help some of the people who may be blundering into a bad decision.

I've heard horror stories. Hotlines being required by the US to call emergency services on mention of suicide, which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt.

which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt.

This is beyond disgusting. Who comes up with these stupid laws? Take freedom and money from someone already depressed? WTF

What is the best way to respond/try to help?

I honestly don't see it. From where I stand, he's trying to provide useful information to someone who one can (very reasonably) assume might be of help. First sentence doesn't have to be correct, but can't hurt to empathize first.

Spot on. I don't believe anyone who claims not to have contemplated suicide; it's everpresent in the news and entertainment. It always has been, too. If anything, not having thought through some of those eventualities is short-sighted.

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