Comment by torte | Hacker News Reader

Comment by torte | Hacker News Reader

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I would expect that each newly hired developer (be it junior, mid-level, senior) can and will take time to do train and improve him/herself. I don't mind this being on job time, as long it is not all day. Most times this is even required when doing a task, because no one knows everything, even with X+ years of experience. If this mindset is not there and a newly hired developer requires actual training (like someone else in the company teaching them), then I think he/she will never make a good developer in the first place, because each new task with some obstacle they have never dealt with, will require them to get training from someone else.

I am a big fan of mentoring, but this is related to understanding the existing platform and getting productive working on it, not about teaching technology XYZ.

This opinion should actually go both ways and companies need to be willing to hire developers, even they don't have the 100% exact skills they need and then allow them to improve them on the job. If you got rejected by companies because they don't understand this, then be glad that you will not work for them.

I 100% agree with you. Over the course of my career, I've taken plenty of time, on the clock, to do such. Not necessarily with any particular direction of my managers, but just understanding that "My job is to solve problem X. Doing so requires learning tool Y, therefore, I'll spend a day of learning and an hour of coding".

Having talked to others, though, I find that a lot of folks don't necessarily realize that this is acceptable/encouraged. As I moved into senior roles, I tried to do a better job of conveying this. And overall, employers and managers need to do a better job communicating that doing this is expected/reasonable behavior.

Absolutely agreed. What's implicit here is the risk that somebody just won't work out. I once invested a huge amount of effort trying to train a junior dev and after 3 months he still didn't "get it". Not only was he unproductive but I was basically operating at half capacity for those three months. It was a huge exercise in frustration and something I will never attempt again.

I am sure that was very frustrating! Did you end up letting him go? It sounds loke the job wasn't a fit for his skillsets.

I will say that I have hired junior folks and seen them thrive after three months (take on more work with more autonomy) and that leveling up was so great to see. Plus it made them a better developer and more effective foe the company.

That's the flip side.

And it's not like a senior developer is a sure bet to be effective either (though I grant you they are, all things considered, a better bet).

I think this is the beauty of this approach as well (vs actively teaching skills). If somebody does not work out, you will know pretty early based on how they approach the learning in the first place.

On th job training doesn’t normally mean in a classroom, but reading docs and asking questions.

Understand, but I think the intensity matters here. If you are mentoring a junior developer and he asks you questions about every little detail (instead of working through some docs and trying things out), then I guess this is not the on-the-job-training you would like to offer.

To me this seems more like "common sense" than an unpopular opinion. As such I hope this isnt an unpopular opinion!

That's why it "might" be :)

I think in the HN community this is probably common sense.

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