Google Assistant iOS update lets you say ‘Hey Siri, OK Google’ | Hacker News Reader

Google Assistant iOS update lets you say ‘Hey Siri, OK Google’

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60 pointspestkranker85 comments

The same dark pattern they document here trying to persuade you to enable "Web and App Activity" tracking is even worse in Google Maps for iOS, as I found when I disabled the feature after the press it received. No matter how many times you dismiss it, you'll again get a huge prompt on the homescreen urging you to turn it on in a few days. And they hold your home and work address hostage if you don't enable it, despite having nothing to do with the anti-feature in question. I hate this shite company.

My activity tracking is disabled and I don't see any prompt in the Google Maps app. Where should I be looking?

It popped for me at the bottom on Android.

maps on android is by far the neediest app on my phone, outpacing tinder by a pretty wide margin.

neediest ?

I think referring to needing and asking for system permissions.

always popping up notifications or "hey try this out" or "didja know?" or any amount of "how many clicks is it going to take to get my nav started this time?" friction.

I turned off app notification for maps (and every other app that has ever sent me an unwarranted notification) and my phone is refreshingly silent most of the time.

That's a good idea, but does it take care of all the in-app popup type distractions, too? Today I happened to go through Maps' settings and found about 15 notification items to turn off, but I imagine they'll keep adding this default-on trash until Google kills the service one day.

Ah, perhaps that's the difference. I use the iOS app and don't see a prompt.

I’ve used Shortcuts (used to be Workflow) to “save” various favorite map locations without Google being asked to remember them. It’s actually better because I can program a complex sequence such as also immediately displaying a map with directions to that place, it can be in the widget area of the phone, etc.

And Maps also loses the ability to save your search history, like, it won't even save it locally, you just can't see recent places you've searched for.

I consider this a positive. If I ask Google not to save my data, I don't want them to save my data, not pick and choose where they should be saving it.

Fair point. But why not make it an option for "advanced" users.

E.g. A slider, 1 - we'll save your data everywhere, 2 - locally only, 3 - no history saved at all.

How can they make money off your data if they don't have it?

They just want data. They no longer want to make people's lives easier.

Here:

They just want data. They never wanted to make people's lives easier.

fixed it for you.

Whats worse is that if you own a google home mini and turn off the web and app activity it essentially becomes a useless brick.

For most commands literally everything is on the lines of "Sorry I don't have enough access to perform that command. You can change this in the Google Home app". Simple stuff like "Play some music" and "Whats the weather like?" is blocked.

I just wish there was more fine grained control over exactly what I give access to.

Yes, I found this as well. So now it is used as a broadcast system for Home Assistant notifications / reminders etc (super handy, actually).

They will never give you fine grained control because this is part of the quid-pro-quo. You want convenience, they want data about you. They withhold convenience until you give them the data. Every single Google product is built around this core principle and it drives many if not all of their UI decisions.

> You want convenience, they want data about you. They withhold convenience until you give them the data.

I already directly paid them a tidy sum for my phone. It's gauche for them to try weasel more out of me.

Indeed. And how much more did you pay for your car? Living in the future is usually pretty cool but there are some things, like this, that I just don't like about it.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/19/ford-reorganization-cust...

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150211/10134429988/cars-...

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/otonomo-selling-car-data-...

This from the Simpsons comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27rfr59RiE

Same with Android Auto. Voice commands need web and app activity, even though literally all I want to do with it is to make calls and send texts. It makes no f-ing sense, except as a dark pattern, since I can receive and reply to texts just fine without enabling the tracking.

I discovered this when I moved. Fortunately Apple maps suffices.

I think there's only so much you can complain about a free service. I would bet that you couldn't convince 50% of the existing users to pay $5/month to get a fully private version of any Google service. In my experience, people value convenience (as in it's more convenient NOT to spend any money on something) more than they value privacy.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, you're just not in a position to make it.

We may not pay cash to use it. We pay dearly with our information.

It is not free.

You're overestimating the price of your information.

People complain about free service doing that and not that, but very few would actually pay monthly fee for the features they're asking for. I would say the percentage of paying customers would far lower than 50%, maybe less than 10% globally.

Google could introduce payed alternative with all user tracking off. But I understand it's not worth the money to implement and maintain such a product for limited group of people. The only benefit it could bring is that then they can say: "Hey, you don't like us to track you? Go with payed alternative.". And nobody can ever complain to not have an alternative.

<sarcasm> With same logic, people complain about the adds too, so I guess the youtube premium (red) subscriptions must be booming. </sarcasm>

It's not just that. You cannot even save a location manually without enabling tracking (not just your home/work address). It's a shame that Google Maps has such good data, because in every other way it's extremely user hostile.

I added my home and work addresses to my phone's dictionary under the shortcuts "hm" and "wrk". In some ways this is even faster since I don't have to rely on the maps UI to insert my address.

I wish I could choose my default assistant like I can choose my default browser in iOS. AFAIK this is already possible in Android. Too bad we'll probably need some angry European politician to convince Apple.

You can choose your default browser in iOS? Since when?

You can't, the OP most likely meant you can change the search engine for the default browser

Or you could convince yourself to switch.

Your only options for change in a closed platform are leaving, or coercion by force.

Great, now I need to speak with all this extra `require English; English::structure` isn't that kinda against the spirit of these things?

I mean I personally never use Siri or others because I find it easier to get what I want without trying to guess how a computer will interpret. I have the same problem with people, and frankly computers are a nice reprive. Granted I'm not the general user.

Haha. I agree with this sentiment. An additional problem is that the user may not always know which voice assistant(library) can fulfill their request. So now one request has to be forked by the user into multiple ones or chained together to send the same data to all data mining companies. Hey Siri, ask Google to tell Alexa to add this to my shopping cart.

Sounds like they've correctly virtualized certain kinds of dysfunctional corporate environments.

My people.

I would love it if they had an “Alexa, OK Google.” I have a pretty extensive Hue+Echo IoT setup, but it def feels like the Echo is training me to speak the “magical incantations”, instead of me using it to ask semantic queries. Siri is almost as bad too...

So we seem to be on our way to a typical magical society.. once we hid all the infrastructure and our descendants cannot remember..

I am curios why google and others don't let us change the wake up command. Technically I don't see an issue as the phrase can be setup to only work with your voice already. Is it because of the bad press that could be caused by people abusing this and posting about it?

At least on iOS, the first pass of wakeup phrase recognition is handled by a pre-trained ML model, based on data from a wide variety of speakers. Training a model for a user-chosen phrase would take a lot more samples, and a lot more time, than most users would be willing to put up with.

There's some details on Apple's approach at: https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/10/01/hey-siri.html

Ohhhh, interesting. They only use your additional training for speaker identification, so that someone else can't say "Hey Siri" to your device.

I believe it's similar with a lot of the Google devices.

Last I read, a pretrained ML trigger happens entirely on-device, and if the trigger happens, it sends the previous few seconds to the server that does the real processing to check voice match and other stuff.

As far as I know that disambiguation is pretty naive, just your general voice register; i.e., you could fool it pretty easily if you were trying to. That's why it still requires you to unlock a device for personal requests.

For some reason "Google" is one of those words that really puts my accent to the test.

I have to repeat it over and over for the device to wake up. "Ok Gogle" ... "Ok Gougle"... "Ok Goo gle"...

I really wish you could change it.

"Hey Siri" always feels similarly awkward to me. The only wake words I really like so far are "Alexa" (it helps that the Echo seems to recognize it even when I'm particularly mealy-mouthed) and "Computer" (that one's probably because of Star Trek making it feel more natural in my head).

The hotword phrase is actually baked into a tiny firmware of a separate DSP that's constantly running and waiting for the pattern match. Updating the hotwork requires updating that firmware model (which doesn't really have a lot of RAM) and can sometimes differ between the manufacturers (e.g. it's the reason why Samsungs phones sometimes behave differently).

This makes custom hotwords a bit... complicated :)

Amazon manages this fine on their Echo products...

Last I checked they have like 4 hotwords you can't pick an arbitrary word.

Echo products are always on things that can afford to use main application processor to do the hotword detection.

'ok google' seems more like a broad branding effort than button to turn on the service

Can't have people forget who their lord benefactor is.

The name is actually a very important part of the algorithm they use. That's why companies have chosen unique names (Alexa, Google, Bixby, etc.)- they standout clearly when a speaker uses them.

If they let you use any word, it would suck the battery life away so quick.

Im still mad at Microsoft for making me say 'Hey Cortana' instead of just 'xbox' when Im using my kinect to control my home entertainment system.

Alexa also has a couple different ones you can pick from. I liked the 'computer' one the most.

I went with “Hey Siri, Hey Google”

Superstar DJs. Here we go!

Tempted to try "Hey Siri, wait not you"

And still won’t let me access my own Gsuite data, like my calendar or contacts. That’s some pretty shit priorities right there.

Google, the king of half-assed solutions.

Sounds more like half-assed research. GSuite is a service for businesses and, as such, Google is obligated to implement certain rules on what can and cannot be done with GSuite business accounts

I was hoping for this, it's the first thing I thought to try after Shortcuts was released. Now we just need to get Alexa and Cortana onboard too. Hello, Amazon and Microsoft?

"Hey Siri, ask (Google|Alexa|Cortana)..."

Put them all behind the same interface, on the same device. Let us figure out which one actually works best -- though I'd rather have a "team" of digital assistants.

Cortana already has an app on iOS, and Alexa has full response capability when used via Amazon Music, so it's only a matter of support. What I would like to see is specific "voice assistant" integration, where asking Siri something will bring up results from all of the voice assistants you've enabled/installed.

I'm much more a fan of anthropomorphised voice assistants. Maybe it's because I identify as a socialist, but saying "OK [big brand], everytime is very grating. And "OK" is very awkward, "Alexa" for me is far easier.

Yeah, it would feel more personal. Not sure why Google hasn't created some virtual persona like Siri and Cortana...

Because it's nerds building products at Google. Not even trying to be overly negative or critical here, just an observation. It can actually be seen as something positive in many ways (Android being super flexible vs iOS being more limited) YET (Android being less intuitive vs iOS being a lot more user-friendly).

>Android being less intuitive vs iOS being a lot more user-friendly

This is a piece of received knowledge that in my current experience of both is no longer true.

It's definitely a branding strategy-- if you think about it, companies pay thousands if not millions of dollars in ad campaigns that don't "sell" anything. Think product placement in movies, those logos in the back on some interviews, the banners around the field in football (soccer) matches, etc.

They are meant to have you (consciously or subconsciously) simply think about a brand, and hopefully also associate it with something you might enjoy, like a good sports game or a character in a movie.

Having you repeat the name of the company constantly in the intimacy of your home can only reinforce their brand for the better, and associate it with a helpful personality.

"Computer" would work fine for me, makes me feel like I'm in TNG!

"Comrade Computer", surely. amaccuish talked about anthropomorphization. Computers are people, too. (-:

"Hey Siri, Ok Google, Alexa, Hey Cortana"

Aaand its not available outside of US for how many years now?

Anybody have clear instructions on how to enable this?

Wow, awkward

I think we should genericise it to “oi! Phone!”

"Alexa, say 'OK Google' to Siri"

"Cortana... Ah nevermind."

Cortana and Alexa were the first two assistants to integrate in some form. You can call Cortana from Alexa and Alexa from Cortana. I wish Apple would just let you opt out of Siri and let you choose Alexa, Cortana or Google. That would actually tempt me to move away from Android.

"Yo, Bixby!"

"Pardon me, HAL..."

That sounds uncomfortably close to iPhone :)

“Computer” - is there a reason someone hasn’t done this? Is it too non-specific? Would this upset the owners of Star Trek?

The Lego Movie got to it first.

Reminds me of The IT Crowd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyV0IVItlM4

Amazon's Echo lets you use "Computer" as the hot word.

I'd like it to be "oh captain my captain"

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