The Second Half of Watergate Was Bigger, Worse, and Forgotten by the Public
longreads.com
longreads.com
1) This wasn't really forgotten by the public. There was a law passed by Congress meant to address this, which if anyone has worked in American corporate governance is well aware of. The article mentions the FCPA.
2) The much more interesting question about Watergate is what were the Plumbers looking for? Why did they conduct their break ins? This was not understood at the time.
We now know about Nixon's successful attempt to torpedo the Vietnam peace talks in '68. Something Mark Felt didn't even know. We also now know that LBJ knew about it as well right before the elections in '68. LBJ didn't make it public, but instead kept a file on it that later came to be held in his presidential library. Nixon and the plumbers were likely looking for this file. They never found it and it wasn't until a researcher in the mid-90's discovered it in LBJ's presidential library. This information, had it been made public, would have destroyed Nixon.
More recently, Theresa May's backing for military action in Syria pumped the stock price of British Aerospace, which happens to be part-owned by a capital fund that employ's Theresa May's husband.
The real problem with politics is that very few people understand how absolutely amoral and cynical it is. LBJ still had some interest in public service, but for a terrifying number of modern politicians the public service ethos is a fig leaf.
The real morality is narcissism and greed. As long as money keeps rolling in no one cares how it's made or who gets damaged in the process.
For anyone in top of politics they are likely going to be connected to people who are top in either corporations or organisations.
Theresa May isn't a dictator and can't just decide what she wants to without being in agreement with the rest of her politicians.
Insinuating that there is some causational relationship here is just as much part of the problem.
That said, there definitely are cases where the relationship seems very suspicious, but it's not a rule and I wish people would be more careful to prove their claims rather than just putting them out there. But maybe I am missing something here.
This is true, to the extent where I wish people would stop individualizing problems that are obviously endemic to the entire system. The damage caused by individual conspiracies isolated in history is negligible to the scale of systemic issues in modern political economy. Applying some abstract thinking would help us understand that May isn't a dictator, but capital is.
I think the idea is, to distribute power to the people. These cooperatives would generally make decisions that benefit the majority. Unlike what we have today where mega corporations (dictated by a handful few) keep doing whatever they can for 'growth' even if that means destroying people's lives and our planet.
I believe the relevant word is actually "treason" at least according to "The Vietnam War: An Intimate History".
"Richard Nixon is gone now, and I am poorer for it. He was the real thing -- a political monster straight out of Grendel and a very dangerous enemy. He could shake your hand and stab you in the back at the same time. He lied to his friends and betrayed the trust of his family. Not even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that 'I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.'"
[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-...
You'll have to forgive me for paraphrasing, "a political monster straight out of Grendel and a very dangerous enemy". Which I find extreme. But Thompson was great at grandiose phrasing which is also why I like his writing.
and sow in the salt
Huh, that looks like an early example of Matt Levine's rule that everything bad is also securities fraud. (From before the anti-bribery law was passed.)
The followup tweet includes my suspicion this might have been the first because they first discovered the lack of a law, and creatively got around that fact.
It's all part of the plan, man. Keep 'em distracted with too much info. It's like a law firm burying you with boxes and boxes and boxes of discovery, which has little or nothing to actually do with the case at hand. It's effective, and tiresome.
I believe the jury is (literally) still out on the legality of his interim appointment.
He was part of a non-profit advocacy group that advocated for a specific cause. Some people contributed to that. Seems he ran around doing radio interviews, not making profits.
In a free society, I don't see anything wrong with that.
I'm not even sure if non-profits should be obliged to publicize their donors if the donors don't want to be identified.
Of course, if the work is specifically political, it should be transparent. Also, given that he's going to take a government position, we want to know who he's been taking from ...
While it does maybe look a little suspicious at face value there's no there there.
If a bunch of people want to run around advocating some kind of principle and raise money for themselves to do that then so be it, they can do that.
Most people work for private entities and we have no idea what goes on.
I'm not sure if I like this guy at all, but that he worked for some non-profit is not a smoking gun of any kind really.
Do we know how she was comped? By whom? How much? For what? What were her conflicts of interests with her very powerful clients?
She was paid by 'hidden people' via her firm. No doubt - and we have no idea who.
Everyone who's possibly going to be the US Att. General is going to have web of conflicts of interests in their history, a lot of it private.
1 year ago I don't think anyone could have predicted who would be the Att. General so I'm not sure this is smoke.
This guy seems to have some more obvious, more public conflicts of interests, those that don't like him should probably focus on that. I don't really like this guy, but then I don't know that much about him and I'm not American so I'm not going to say anything specifically other than there's nothing wrong with anyone working for a non-profit.
A man who works for a private advocacy firm for years before going into public office, wherein nobody on earth would have had a clue that this guy was going to be the US chief attorney is - does not even hint corruption.
This guy was working this advocacy group in 2014. Are you really indicating that some people knew, in 2014 that Donald Trump would be pres 2 years later, and that 2 years after that, that Drump would put 'their boy' in as Att. General? Because that's what you'd have to insinuate if you think this guy is guilty of something (at least from this non-profit)
You have offered no rebuttal to my position, or remotely any evidence of corruption ... just ad-hominem.
In order to hint at 'corruption' you'd have to indicate that somehow, some time ago - before Trump was even President - that this guy was collecting millions from some vague source so that 'one day' he'd act on it.
It's absurd.
This new Att. General has enough glaring problem that are probably lower hanging fruit. This non-profit is probably not one of them, at least superficially.
And yes, if you want a significant public office, you should disclose mayor conflicts of interests. That definitively includes large share of recent income.
“Whitaker previously served as Chief of Staff to Sessions from September 2017 to November 2018”.
The commenters here are creating the controversy, it's not a straw-man I'm making.
This guy's background is shady enough, but not enough to imply that money received before working in government is somehow an implication of corruption.
Which is inevitable, but we should still check whether that's the case, whether that influenced their decisions, etc.
But it's even more important for them to not have CURRENTLY ACTIVE conflicts of interest.
The indication is that because he was part of a private non-profit - is that there is some kind of inherent shadiness - which is wrong.
The radical partisanship here has thrown all of the otherwise great debaters on here into a hissy fit.
There is no story.
He was part of an advocacy group from years ago - it likely has nothing to do with anything.
He could have been a private lawyer, or worked at any other private firm and it would indicate the same degree of ostensible corruption.
Lorette Lynch was being paid market rate to do skilled work by a transparent business, not a shadowy millionaire to do .. what exactly did Whittaker do to justify his pay?
Are you kidding? They are almost exactly analogue.
How do you prescribe this non-profit as 'shady'?
How do you arrive at the conclusion that he was not paid some kind of market rate?
How do you arrive at the conclusion that expensive DC law firms are 'reputable'?
How do you conclude that Loretta Lynch's dealings were not at least with nefarious corporations or individuals?
Have you ever worked with a high profile law firm? You do realize that they are expensive because they help powerful people and groups bend the law, right?
He was the head of a non-profit advocacy group - and there are tons of them - and he runs around advocating for whatever cause. I'm of the inclination to believe that it was just a shade less than lobbying, ergo non-profit instead of having to register as a lobbyist.
$500K is not that much in many circles - probably a lot less than Loretta Lynch will have earned for working for who? Exactly? (I mean her client list, which is likely private)
Was she involved in defending nefarious activity by private individuals or corporations? (You do realize what lawyers do, right?) I don't know, I don't think any of us do.
The situations are actually very similar.
Hopefully, we'll get more of a chance to vet him ... but I'm doubtful there'll be much transparency on the source of his funds.
Most people can do whatever they like. It's when you are a public official and people can pay you for favors that this matters.
Except he wasn't in public office while working for some non-profit.
So what is your point?
Does this look bad? Yes, very hypocritical. But people are allowed to work for private entities doing such things.
Really?
See my note above about Loretta Lynch and her 10 years at a high powered DC Law Firm. She was likely paid millions by very powerful interests.
Were you up in arms to see her client lists, how much she was paid before she was Att. Gen.?
Again - I don't like this new guy - but the double standard on this is very hypocritical.
People are allowed to work in private and have private transaction and none of it really matters unless there is some kind of predicate knowledge.
Again - during his time at this fund, nobody on planet earth could have known this guy was going to be Attn. General so the suggestion that he was being paid to alter the law is a little bit out there.
a) We are talking about a specific guy
b) The commenters are clearly holding him to a totally different standard
c) Unfortunately - there'd be no public servants if everything had to be disclosed. It'd be impossible. There'd be conflicts of interest. For Attorney General ... these folks are lawyers! How much information can they give about previous clients! Probably not much! :)
So yes, transparency. Tax returns, donations, relationships with foreign nationals, public officials from other countries, persons of interest ... but there's only so much that someone can reasonably give up.
A specific guy that got a lot of money anonymously and is an acting AG
You, 4 posts up. Please stop moving the goalposts.
Everyone else's comments were about 'this specific guy' - which I was responding to.
But all your posts are arguing against people who are talking about “this guy specifically”.
At best, you are missing the point badly.
Most of us aren't able to accept any money where it might impact our decisions on the job.
“Part of” doesn't really capture his status as the sole paid employee.
> Seems he ran around doing radio interviews, not making profits.
The $1.2 million isn't the contribution to the entity that paid expenses and his salary, it's his salary from the entity. So it very much seems like he was running around doing radio interviews and making (rather large) profits.
That he was the sole member is not relevant.
And you're misunderstanding the issue of 'non profit': he was not operating a profitable entity. His comp. doesn't count as profit for the org.
Again - there's nothing here. He was part of a private firm that did advocacy, among other things. 1/2 of the people that go into government go in from private firms, and we know nothing about their relationships otherwise.
This guy worked for this odd non-profit long before anyone could have conceived that he would be the US chief attorney, so there's no smoke here really.
That he was the sole paid employee is relevant to the minimizing deflection you keep making that he was merely “part of” the entity.
> And you're misunderstanding the issue of 'non profit'
No, I'm not (but you are).
> he was not operating a profitable entity.
Not that that is germane to anything, but non-profit doesn't mean that an organization isn't profitable, it means that there are no equity claims on any profits (that is, it doesn't return profits to it's owners.)
> His comp. doesn't count as profit for the org.
Which would be relevant if he issue was whether the org was making profits, but not when it is whether he was making profits.
> This guy worked for this odd non-profit long before anyone could have conceived that he would be the US chief attorney, so there's no smoke here really.
The former might be relevant to the latter if the accusation was that he was being bribed in anticipation of becoming AG, rather than the opacity of the background of a non-Senate-confirmed and otherwise non-publicly-vetted appointee as Acting Attorney General outside the normal line of succession.
> "So it very much seems like he was running around doing radio interviews and making (rather large) profits."
This statement implies a lack of understanding of what a 'non profit' is, because there is no indication of profit here.
But it doesn't matter - by all accounts, this was just a regular non-profit. There's nothing curious about it.
> "The former might be relevant to the latter if the accusation was that he was being bribed in anticipation of becoming AG"
He was employed there since 2014 - you're implication would be that somehow, years before Trump was elected, years before his nomination, that someone could have bribed him - which is totally far fetched.
Also - again - hypocritical if you don't apply the same logic to other members of such offices, all of whom have 'opaque' financial backgrounds were they in private office. Who paid Loretta Lynch's millions for 10 years before she became AG? And where was the uproar then?
There are no loaded dice here.
Just regular DC inanity.
(1) you keep explicitly demonstrating (not merely implying) complete ignorance of what a nonprofit is, because you keep saying that making profits is relevant to that status (it's not, returning them to investors is.)
(2) moreover, you keep demonstrating failure at reading comprehension at the same time, by stubbornly (now even after the error was pointed out) confusing a statement about Whittaker personally profiting with a statement about the nonprofit from which he was profiting doing so.
> He was employed there since 2014 - you're implication would be that somehow, years before Trump was elected, years before his nomination, that someone could have bribed him
No, my explicit claim was that your continuing to point to the fact that he was employed there before anyone could have predicted he would become AG would only be relevant if someone had made the outlandish claim you suggest, but that you are beating a strawman because literally no one anywhere has made that claim.
It was a non-profit. He got paid. That's it. There's nothing to bring up. So why would you otherwise?
----
" but that you are beating a strawman because literally no one anywhere has made that claim."
Really?
"This is intellectually lazy its a clear case of corruption" ... is what someone wrote just above - and is the general implication of those commenting here.
The entire thread is devoted to insinuating that this guy has some kind of major conflict of interest due to his shady involvement with this non-profit.
So, no, it's not a 'straw man' - I'm responding directly to the assertion.
There is nothing here.
A curious but otherwise normal non-profit, in operation long before anything relevant.
There's probably no fire, there's not even any smoke.
It is, however, the sort of public humiliation one might be willing to accept as an employee of Completely Ordinary People for the Advancement of Motivated Reasoning and Large Paychecks.
Which is irrelevant, as it's still revenue AND profit for him.
And that is also irrelevant.
>>> He had a job and got paid for it <<<
Is this now the threshold for sinister activity?
Are you people reading your own words?
The implication of the OP regarding 'profit' was that there was something remiss re: 'non profit'.
There isn't.
There is no smoke here.
A guy had a job in the private sector, very much like most others before they go into public office.
That's it.
So, hopefully, they'll have a chance for vetting.
But we'll find out about as much about his non-profits backers as we did about Loretta Lynch clients while she was in private practice before become AG - which is not much.
Money he receives during holding public office is another story altogether.
Thy hypocrisy on this thread is byzantine, people have lost their marbles.
I'm so glad I don't have a stake in this game, and thankful everyday I'm not caught up in American political delusions which so few seem to actually be able to escape.
Never wrote the above, never said that is the threshold, so not ever sure what you're going on about.
The threshold of "sinister activity" is getting money from unknown sources. That would be problematic whether you're DA or a private citizen (e.g. for money laundering etc). Doubly so if you're supposedly in an organization for "Accountability and Civic Trust", where you're making statements with political impact against policies, politicians and parties, as an "non profit" "ngo", while getting paid millions from unknown donors (with whatever agendas). Doubly so if it's 2017 and you continue getting paid from them while getting to the post of chief of staff of Sessions.
>Are you people reading your own words?
Well, what you quoted above are not "my own words", so there's that.
- What did you do before? - I did [stuff] - For who? - Not telling.
Yeah, that sounds legit.
Also, non-profit just refers to the structure of the corporation for tax purposes. It’s also not a synonym for charity.
A guy worked for a private entity for years.
That's it.
There's no story here.
Nobody working for the Gov. not even AG is going to be required to list all of those who paid into such entities over the past - and it only demonstrates the sad level of partisanship here that everyone should try to consider as much for this guy.
If there are some nefarious dealings then, fine, hopefully they will come to light.
Other than that, there is nothing here, not even smoke
People get paid a lot in high powered situations.
Fundraisers for charities make a fortune.
Members of Boards get paid a fortune for seemingly not doing a lot.
Tons of people in 'think tanks' are paid a fortune for their roles.
There's really not much out of line here.
If he was receiving money while on the public dole - that's another story.
If he 'all of a sudden' got a pile of cash whilst we knew he was going to be AG - different story.
But his involvement in the non-profit predates any of the Trumpian shenanigans, so this is really a non story.
If you apply the same degree of scrutiny to non-Trump officials from other eras, you run into the same problems.
Most massively: the Clinton Global Wealth Initiative. Basically a super-massive kitty-fund for the Clinton family, that actors - many of them nefarious - from all sorts of shady places in the world have paid into while Clinton was Secretary of State ! Her fund was literally receiving millions of dollars from state actors she was doing public business with. There was an example of a man in Chicago who made a $200K donation, and then was appointed to a board (after a scandal he was withdrawn) ... but there's basically no way to detangle Clinton from that fund, no matter how above board she is. Nobody in government should be managing a several hundred million dollar fund that their peers are contributing to. I'm not hinting that she was corrupt, rather, the conflict of interest is as big as you can get and there wasn't much fuss over it.
Apart for the blatant conflict of interest and the excellent scheme to funnel unknown origin money to an attorney general, there isn't...
Your comment amounts to "wet streets cause rain!"
Steps can't be too small, and in practice that could mean they have to be pretty large. Here the opposite approach - attacking root causes - can become more productive.
Having life joys that can be disrupted by this rage is a luxury, and not nearly common enough. I do feel that's a political truism, though: change only happens when problems are serious enough to upset the well-off who have disposable income and time, and who can afford (both materially and existentially) to maintain this sort of boiling rage and do something about it.
Even societies in which most people are barely living at a pure subsistence level have historically had revolutions, and in fact subsistence commoners becoming angry to the point of revolution has repeatedly been one way that nature corrects concentrations of power.
I’d go even further and say that your argument is not just wrong, but dangerously wrong because it offers an excuse for why a person might not cultivate their indignant rage at the corruption. You invite them to self-pity and woe their poverty as an excuse to not direct that rage at social progress, which is unacceptable even if you’re all the way at true subsistence level poverty (most aren’t, even by world standards).
And you also create an excuse for not being upset with other people who fail to act on their indignant rage over this issue too. You can just write it off as someone not “privileged enough” to sacrifice for the sake of acting to stop corruption.
My co-workers don't follow politics (except what gets shovelled at them by the red tops) and largely don't care as long as they get to go on holiday a couple of times a year and upgrade their car every few.
By and large they are comfortable and so they are happy with things as they are.
btw, 23's an interesting number. I'm sure you've noticed too.. maybe similar to this page http://www.crystalinks.com/23enigma.html
If it is better, it would be because:
(1) people are 'better' now - probably not true
(2) the preventative measures in place now are better - but we know the lengths that these people will go to perpetuate corruption, so I just assume they've probably found other roundabout ways.
The same goes for elections. LBJ bringing thousands of Mexicans over the border to vote in Texas elections and eventually stealing the his seat in the Senate. Why should we believe that there isn't similar violations happening now? I personally doubt the extent of corruption has changed at all, only that it is more sophisticated. I have no confidence in public elections or the sanctity of government as a result. I'm completely disillusioned and I have no intention of participating at all.
FWIW, I'm not from the USA, but I believe the same principle holds across the world
It's really hard to deny that there are difference. Over time: see J Edgar Hoover, or Nixon. Or 70 years without a World War (and generally with drastically fewer wars than before).
And geographically: Canada is better than the US is better than Portugal is better than Greece is better than Iran is better than Sudan is better than North Korea...
Unless you literally believe the vote in your country has as little power as one in North Korea (i.e. zero), there is no moral justification for just cynically throwing up your arms and declaring everyone corrupt/it's all just the globalists/Bilderberg/elite/whatever. Because if enough people do that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Regarding voting, I completely understand that my stance is not helping the situation at all and is untenable if too many people adopt it, but I truly believe that the perceived value of a vote is so out of whack with its actual value, that I (selfishly, I admit) decide to give it up entirely. Sure, some places are better than others, but I think in all countries that I'm aware of, it's still too bad for me to care about participating.
Reading political biographies will show you the gulf that exists between how politics actually works, and how the general public perceive it and use as their metric for choosing candidates.
That much, at least, hasn’t changed.
The solution is simple - its called the "rule of LAW". These corps and gov people should be prosecuted to full extent; giving/taking bribes should be illegal just as being caught with a plane full of heroin.
The problem that we have is that law system is not really working when it comes to "big guns". They have politicians and lawyers/judges in their pockets/protecting them.
The hard part of prosecuting a mugger or a thief is finding out and then proving who committed the crime - that a crime took place is usually obvious. The hard part of prosecuting "victimless" white-collar crimes is even knowing that anything has happened, that's before having to prove that what happened was illegal and determining exactly who did it.
a) Selfishly, it has unanticipated consequences for foreign policy.
b) Altruistically, it causes developing countries to misspend money on stuff they don't really need (mostly arms).
The second is particularly compelling. Laws outlawing foreign bribery seem like a powerful weapon against the resource curse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse).
> Its revelation that multinational corporations, including some of the most prestigious brands in the United States, had been making illegal contributions to political parties not only at home but in foreign countries around the world would later be described by Ray Garrett, the chairman of the SEC, as “the second half of Watergate, and by far the larger half.”
Is in reference to this:
> the Multinational Corporation Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee; the Subcommittee on International Economic Policy of the House Committee on International Relations; and the President's Task Force on Questionable Corporate Payments Abroad
See: http://www.djcl.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/FOREIGN-BRIBE...
A bribe is usually understood to be of benefit to the politician personally. This sort of corruption is actually incredibly rare in the US.
What is, unfortunately, very common are payments to their campaigns. These are legal and, since Citizen United, basically unlimited. There are, however, rather strict rules as to how they can be used. And as that Republican idiot from California is currently experiencing, these rules are enforced.
I'm not making apologies for the undeniable harms of the latter practice. But it is different, and marginally less evil . As to the relative evilness: the "traditional" bribe is strictly more useful to a politicians, because they always had the option to convert it to campaign money. That option does not exist in the other direction.
I think it's important to appreciate such nuances. First, because it stops the corroding effect of cynicism on your soul. And, second, if we condemn everything at the same level of maximum evilness, any change that is not instant paradise is indistinguishable to the status quo. Because Paradise no longer exists (or is now a strip club), nothing will ever happen.
It's a pretty good example of the point I'm trying to make that my post is being downvoted, presumably by people of the mindset of the other reply, i. e. "Nope. U STUPID. Burn all politicians". I completely agree that Citizen United is atrocious. But blanket hate and cynicism is the surefire way to populism, and the ensuing wide lurches across the political spectrum.
It just seems far too many people think everything is so bad it's time to get out the guillotines. That proposition strikes me as rather shortsighted, considering today still would seem to be the best time in history to be alive.
A revolution acts a lot like random shuffling. If you consider society as a puzzle, which is not done, but more complete than ever before, throwing it in the air and letting the pieces fall where they may seems unlikely to produce a more perfect arrangement, just by the principles of entropy.
I'm not advocating revolution, having seen the end result of one first hand, but to say that revolution is shortsighted entirely misses the forrest for the trees. All complex systems, be they biological organisms or deep learning neural networks, need randomness injected into them or they will fail to respond to the randomness of the environment around them. In the case of societies and organisms, that could very well mean extinction.
It's a risk-reward calculation like any action.
Relevant videos (IMO)
First Past The Post Voting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Range Voting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
Alternative Vote - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Mixed-Member Proportional Representation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
Bonus video
This video will make you angry - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc
Donating to a campaign buys influence. That politician is keen to keep a good relationship to the donators do keep the money flowing, and get good deals outside the campaign, get positions that pays him/her directly ect. In really bad cases a donor can blatantly say "I have this new boat, since I've used it once it's only worth half of the original sales price - want to buy it? And completely omit that it was actually build for the donatee". That is just some of the examples of indirect payment involved in blatant corruption.
I think this is complete nonsense. Where you see nuances I see direct conflict of interest. There are no pragmatic approaches to be made here, because they would simply not be beneficial in any case but for involved parties.
Strong condemnation and punishment of corruptions is very viable to drive up the price. For every little penny.
The more outgoing form of cynism is taking it up the... and fighting corruption isn't some inquisition to the next revolution. That is a strawman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics)
I can show you the increase in politicians turning into lobbyists over the years or you can research it. I know which documentary shows the number (Saving Capitalism) but don’t have time to look it up at this moment.
if something is wrong and illegal, you just change the law to make it legal and then it's not wrong, see. so these 'bribes' you are talking about arent really bribes, because they are legal.
obvious. duh.
> Because speech is an essential mechanism of democracy—it is the means to hold officials accountable to the people—political speech must prevail against laws that would suppress it by design or inadvertence. Premised on mistrust of governmental power, the First Amendment stands against attempts to disfavor certain subjects or viewpoints or to distinguish among different speakers, which may be a means to control content. (...) Political speech is indispensable to decision-making in a democracy, and this is no less true because the speech comes from a corporation. (...) All speakers, including individuals and the media, use money amassed from the economic marketplace to fund their speech, and the First Amendment protects the resulting speech.
What Citizens United wanted to do was distribute a documentary film critical of Hillary Clinton.
If someone feels that Citizens United was wrongly decided, then I would encourage that person to read through the case in detail to understand the issues evaluated by the court - specifically, the contradictions in reasoning, chilling effects, and violations of precedent that would result from deciding the case in the alternative. Difficult topics would need to be untangled such as: why should it be unlawful for Citizens United to distribute a political documentary when it's OK for media producers like Fox News or CNN or 60 Minutes or Netflix to do so? They engage in political speech whenever critiquing a policy position or candidate.
One must consider the sweeping consequences of what it would mean to restrain corporations, including the news media, from engaging in political speech. How does journalism and freedom of the press remain in this world, or what bright line distinguishes Citizens United from any other producer of documentaries like e.g. Michael Moore (Fahrenheit 9/11)?
Some sort of politician's equivalent of a ten year non-compete clause seems in order.
Im both of these examples the politician will have MUCH more discretion in how to spend the money.
If you have a paragraph to make the point it's reasonable, but pushing back on the rebranding of lesser bribery as "lobbying" is a very important first step.
Church's other investigations were bigger, worse and also forgotten by the public.
That should stop these murderers and jaywalkers once and for all!
> It included Gestapo-style assassination of a Black Panther leader; it included organizing race riots in an effort to destroy the black movements; it included attacks on the American Indian Movement, on the women's movement, you name it. It included fifteen years of FBI disruption of the Socialist Worker's Party - that meant regular FBI burglaries, stealing membership lists and using them to threaten people, going to businesses and getting members fired from their jobs, and so on. Well, that fact alone-the fact that for fifteen years the FBI had been burglarizing and trying to undermine a legal political party - is already vastly more important than the fact that a bunch of Keystone Kops broke into the Democratic National Committee headquarters one time. The Socialist Workers Party is a legal political party, after all - the fact that they're a weak political party doesn't mean they have less rights than the Democrats. And this wasn't a bunch of gangsters, this was the national political police: that's very serious. And it didn't happen once in the Watergate office complex, is was going on for fifteen years, under every administration. And keep in mind, the Socialist Workers Party episode is just some tiny footnote to COINTELPRO. In comparison to this, Watergate is a tea party.
> Well, look at the comparison in treatment - I mean, you're aware of the comparison in treatment, that's why you know about Watergate and you don't know about COINTELPRO. So what does that tell you? What it tells you is, people in power will defend themselves. The Democratic Party represents about half of corporate power, and those people are able to defend themselves; the Socialist Workers Party represents no power, the Black Panthers don't represent any power, the American Indian Movement doesn't represent any power - so you can do anything you want to them.
> Or take a look at the Nixon administration's famous "Enemies List," which came out in the course of Watergate…You've heard of that, but did you hear about the assassination of Fred Hampton? No. Nothing ever happened to any of the people who were on the Enemies List, which I know perfectly well, because I was on it - and it wasn't because I was on it that it made the front pages. But the FBI and the Chicago police assassinated a Black Panther leader as he lay in his bed one night during the Nixon administration (On December 4, 1969). Well, if the press had any integrity at all, if the Washington Post had any integrity, what they would have said is, "Watergate is totally insignificant and innocuous, who cares about any of that in comparison with these other things." But that's not what happened, obviously. And that just shows again, very dramatically, how the press is lined up with power.
-- Noam Chomsky, "Understanding Power" (2002)
I don't know the solution for this - absence of government just leads to less restrictions for corporations, and absence of corporations will mean that worse corporations will be tolerated by the market.
Complete hogwash. Neither side thinks this.
The left certainly doesn't think that "bad corporations" are responsible for the "ills of society". "Bad corporations" are simply one of the "ills of society".
The right doesn't actually oppose "bad government" at all. They are perfectly fine with foisting bad government on everybody else as long as it comes from their "team".
As an edit, that came off as ranty because obviously I'm miffed but I stand by it for the most part.
Its really sad that there is no choice in American politics today outside a handful of socialist politicians at the local level.
Edit: Keep the downvotes coming! The lack of responses is telling :P
The only people advocating the destruction of corporations are actual anarchists and anarcho-communists.
A large chunk of the right believes in the wholesale destruction of government agencies- they don't think EPA should even exist. But the equivalent opinion on the left has no political power at all. The leftiest member of Congress is not calling for a Worker's Revolution.
The equivalent argument to a Worker's Revolution on the right would be the disbanding of the Federal government or a reduction to independence-day levels. That opinion does not exist in Congress either.
A split-up Google just makes bunch of corporations; abolishing tech corporations entirely and taking them over as a public utility or worker's cooperative is what I'm getting at. "This particular corporation is too big" is a mainstream-but-lefty opinion; "this corporation should be expropriated and owned by the public" is not a mainstream opinion.
Steve Bannon is on record as wanting to dismantle the "administrative state", he held the ear of the President for a while. The head of the CFPB doesn't think the CFPB should exist. Paul Ryan wants to privatise Social Security. "Shrink government enough to drown it in a bathtub" is a Grover Norquist quote. They may not want to roll back the entire government to Independence Day but they do want to take it back to the 19th century if it means they can cut taxes. They don't just want less regulation; they want the feds to get out of the business of regulating industry at all.
The right is not advocating for the complete destruction of the Government. The left is not advocating for the removal of corporations as a legal entity.
Those two positions are equivalent and neither side has cachet at the moment.
The destruction of certain government agencies is closer to the breakup of certain corporations or industries than it is to the right-equivalent of a Worker's Revolution.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/11/john-oliver-last-week-toni...
This guy does not seem worried that he might look a bit cozy with the industry he is supposedly regulating; he's practically asking the industry to ask him for leniency.
There are countries with state oil companies and nobody is advocating for that; but there seems to be people advocating for the total abdication of regulation of oil companies. If there's a continuum between "state run" and "fully unregulated", the "fully unregulated" side seems to have a certain amount of sway whereas the other end doesn't.
Government is not the solution, it is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan.
Shrink government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub. -- Grover Nordquist.
Consider the current call on the left to abolish ICE. The right paints this as meaning "abolish the border patrol" but that's not what it actually means. The call is to either pass the responsibilities to other agencies, or create a new agency. That would be like disbanding a corporation.
Now consider the calls on the right to abolish the EPA. The intent is not that the EPA's responsibilities get picked up by other agencies or passed to a new agency. The intent is that those responsibilities cease.
I don't see any movement to disband the industries you mention. The closest would be oil/gas, and even then the movement is not to disband them, but to regulate them so that they actually bear the costs of the damage they cause, and let the market take its natural course from there.
Rep Ron Paul (R-TX) until 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Pau...
"The only open atheist in congressional history was California Democrat Pete Stark, who spent three decades in Congress before admitting to his lack of faith"
https://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/how-many-open...
The idea that there aren't any very lefty Christians is...well, not entirely surprising given the logb-standing “left v religion” media narrative the US right spent so many decades fostering, but also not at all consistent with reality.
Consider, e.g., Liberation Theology.
Us liberal Christians outnumber the others, we're more concerned about the teachings of Christ (cite The Beatitudes) over accumulating power or fighting culture wars, we consider it distasteful to push our beliefs onto others, and we're not organized politically and never will be.
[Anecdata] Actually..I'm in rather atheist Australia, hardly met any christians here my whole life. But the last 10 years have made a lot of friends online - who are almost all christians - mostly catholic, but not all - in Latin America, the Philippines, Africa. At least, they live in very christian worlds, and are I suppose closer to what you describe than the right-wing uh....than the christianity mostly seen in the mainstream media. They're just lovely people. :-)
That (largely) was Liberation Theology.
> Well, there doesn't seem much of that in the US these days.
There's plenty; see, e.g., Cornel West.
It's perhaps less visible than right-wing Christianity because left Christianity tends not to be theocratic in its political activism, which can make it easier to overlook the Christian part and see only the left part.
Although this is somewhat meaningless in this context since large scale worker cooperatives like the Mondragon Corporation are not (usually) considered to be "bad" organizations by socialists including anarchists.
By the way, if you are confused how anarchism could be a type of socialism check out this explanation: https://medium.com/anarchist-faq/a-1-4-83ba7fe75e15
(In case anyone doesn't realize how ridiculous this is, the DoE is responsible for, among other things, the production and maintenance of the US's nuclear arsenal.)
The more interesting discussion would be about the particular motivations for the creation and proposed dissolution of the department, rather than a cursory dismissal of the idea.
Which did Rick Perry want to do? Well, given that he didn't know what those functions were, I don't see how he possibly could have had any actual plan for reassigning them.
Wanting to abolish the DoE could be sensible if done with thought. But wanting to abolish it while also not having a clue about what it does is just crazypants.
“In fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the Department of Energy, I regret recommending its elimination.” - Actual quote by the current head of the DoE.
No, we don't.
> while the right thinks bad government is responsible.
More “libertarians” than “the right”; they overlap but not are not equivalent. (In fact, libertarians also overlap with the left.)
> absence of government just leads to less restrictions for corporations
No, because corporations are creatures of government. Absence of government (or just absence of government chartering corporations) means no corporations, not unregulated corporations.
Governments chartering corporations as a widespread practice is older than (and arguably key to) completing the transition to a generally capitalist economic system.
> Some businesses today still operate on these older principals, notably law firms.
Law firms are often professional corporations, and those that aren't are often LLCs or LLPs, which are also creatures of government newer than, and deriving in design (in part) from corporations.
Thus far nobody has found a better institution that can act as a check on excessive concentration of wealth.
There's no evidence of that ever happening, or even close to it.
Consider the Hunt bros who attempted to corner the silver market. They paid higher and higher prices for it, then were left holding the bag when the market price for silver crashed.
The so called Guilded Age in the US was also arguably heading in this direction, and was only broken up by massive wars and extremely tax happy federal governments.
The Guilded Age saw an enormous growth in the middle class.
Gilded Age. [0] (Though “Guilded Age” is a good alternative name for the medieval period.) They are homophones, but not synonyms.
Sure, but you've gotta concentrate it somewhere. Concentrating it entirely in bureaucrats hasn't worked out very well.
> Without some external factor draining wealth from the wealthiest they will eventually soak up the entire monetary system and crash it
Hmm? What?
> Capitalism is a positive feedback loop, like an open mic next to an amplified speaker, and we're pushing the mic closer and closer each year.
That's an interesting metaphor, but is it true? We've had capitalism for quite a while. When does the implosion start?
Take a look at the GDP per capital since 1960: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=global+gdp+per+capita
Looks like per capita GDP has increased by a factor of 20 since 1960.
By definition, this is true of all systems.
There are two subtleties that I think are interesting to point out.
One is that the left tends to argue more for things that increase market competition, such as busting up monopolies. I see the right arguing more frequently that anti-competitive practices are justified because limiting them impinges on the freedom of the monopolies.
The other is that portions of the libertarian right are less against governments than they are against the ability of a democracy to limit the power of the wealthy. This is why some classic libertarians like Hayek and Friedman supported right-wing dictatorships in non-US countries. Now obviously, they would say they believe this for a reason (market efficiencies, etc), but I think this is a pretty clear conflict of interest that can lead to motivated reasoning.
That fact is unusual and anomalous in modern political systems and is causing massive instability and unpredictability of outcomes.
Not at all. European socialist parties have been migrating to a, as a previous commenter put it, "cultural" agenda: feminism, LGTB, eco... some of the issues are favorable or neutral to workers, but some others, like inmigration policies are actually harming, or at least perceived as such. The result is that these parties are sinking and their votes going to both extremes of the political spectrum.
This is both a strawman and entirely irrelevant. What's more informative is what both sides do once in power.
The Democrats are quite happy to cut taxes, subsidize all kinds of corporate incentives (see Amazon in NY), and have not actively taken an antitrust stance since the 90s. Meanwhile, the Republicans are quite happy to have a HUGE government, as long as most of those expenditures are in the military and not in social programs. Neither party is particularly anti-corporate. The Democrats are certainly more willing to reign in corporate power, but this is purely in the marginal sense. Consider that copyright extensions over the last 50 years have enjoyed broad, bi-partisan support. As have pro-corporate trade deals like the TPP.
The most stark policy differences between the left and the right in the United States are in the realm of social and cultural issues: abortion, LGBTQ rights, guns. There is no mainstream party that has a substantially adversarial relationship with corporate power.
Among the highlights are minimum wage increases, OSHA enforcement, transparency requirements for government contractors and a whole lot more.
Appointments to the Labour Board, as well as to the courts, could have rather significant impact on precedent. As but one issue that will be central in the near future is the treatment of Uber drivers and similar, and their classification as contractors/employees. A two-seats swing on the Supreme Court is almost guaranteed to have changed the outcome of that trial when it eventually reaches the court.
As to the "social issues" mentioned by OP, it makes me a bit uneasy to see them commonly referred to as separate from labor law. Workplace anti-discrimination law is obviously labor law as well. It may not affect you or me. But neither does the minimum wage. When the latter is considered "labor law" and the former isn't, I wonder what the reason for this sort of "othering" can be.
But of course no politician talks about these things. Capitalism has not failed us; our politicians have failed us. We need to fix capitalism. Block giant mergers, break apart monopolies, ease the burden on small business, etc. More competition is better for everyone (except big corporations of course).
[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/us/politics/supreme-court...