Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

The pat-down is better than the machine. If my privacy is going to be invaded, I want to look the person doing it in the eyes. If I'm going to be embarassed, I want the agent embarassed too. The pat-downs are inconvenient. Systematized invasions of our most private things should be inconvenient. TSA agents are going to face a torrent of complaints alleging abuse, molestation, &c. Good. The whole program is abusive.

What scares me is the faceless machine nobody cares about silently collecting naked pictures of every citizen, managed by people nobody will ever see who can never be held accountable for anything. You can't simply flip a switch and capture high fidelity copies of a pat-down search. You can with the machines.

Incidentally: contrary to popular opinion, security agents, law enforcement, border control, &c all very much do care when complaints are filed on them. Their M.O. is that nobody takes the time to file those complaints. They're counting on people not bothering with the pat-down because the machine seems more convenient, and they're counting on not dealing with a flood of complaints. I plan on filing a complaint at the first hint of an off-color comment about what they're doing. "Better get new gloves, Fred!" --- "I'd like your name and your supervisor's name, now."

I feel like we need a script to recite when demanding a patdown that explains to all the people around us why the porno machines and the whole process is so objectionable. And request to have the patdown out in the open so people can see what you're willing to put up with to avoid going through the scanner.

I thank that would be a good idea. But it needs to be catchy. At least where I am the "naked body scanner" phrase seems to have caught on (or at least be understood).

Potential names for back scatter machine:

Strip search

Electronic strip search

Virtual strip search

Anonymous strip search

The Vegas Strip

most frequent flyers (on flyertalk) have been calling it the nude-o-scope

nude-o-scope just sounds too benign. We refer to the artistic, tasteful depictions of unclothed people in fine art as "nudes". The images captured by back-scatter x-ray bear no resemblance to the tasteful renderings of Titian, Michelangelo, Gaugin, etc. An appropriate nickname for the machine should be derogatory and characterize both the tasteless nature of the images produced and the abusive, exploitative process by which they are acquired. Personally, I think it should be referred to as the Porn-o-Tron machine.

People at my office seem to have standardized on "the naked machine," which I think sounds appropriately menacing, yet pleasantly colloquial. It's just diplomatically neutral enough that I think I may use it in line next time I opt out of one.

Maybe we should call it the Digital Rape Machine so that anti-Digital-Restrictions-Management stickers can advocate two causes at once.

Why not just call it what it is? It's a strip search.

With a digital camera. In 3D!

>Why not just call it what it is? It's a strip search.

Personally if they really want to see me naked they can. It's just a hunk of meat. But you're lying, it's not a strip search unless you take off your clothes, ie "strip".

It's a scan of your body. You're perfectly right to object if you don't like it but it's silly to lie about it IMO.

"I'd prefer the pat-down to the strip search, please."

If challenged on the term strip search, as seems semi-likely:

"It records a picture of my naked body, and sends it to a screen for someone to look at, right?"

Then, regardless whether the responds is "yes", "no", "yes, but...", silence, whatever, follow up with just:

"Pat-down, please."

The problem with this is that you're asking for the pat-down. If that's required to fly if I opt-out of the strip search, let them say so.

"I opt out of the electronic strip search {.|because} {I believe in human dignity|it's silly|I am worried about potential health risks|of Rolando Negrin|...}"

This is a great idea -- I'll send it to some privacy organizations and see what they think ...

9/11: when the terrorists won and we lost our freedoms.

Operation Iraqi Freedom

Don't you mean Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL)? That is what our corporate war pigs named their little genocide... all while laughing directly in our faces.

What more proof do people need that the war on terror is a complete fabrication? Once again we have thwarted "terrorist" attacks right before a midterm election. The CIA/Mossad boys are up to their old tricks again.

We are sheep being led into the slaughter. Will you do anything to stop it or will you sit back and allow your children to be sold into servitude?

Why is this blatantly abrasive propaganda being up-voted?

I might have to stop coming here if Neocons like Goldberg get respect from the locals.

If I were to fly for some reason, I think what I would seriously consider doing is taking the machine, but as I got to it announcing, "fine, you want to see me naked?" and just taking off all my clothes, and then stepping into the scanner.

That's catchy, but kind of a non-starter for people who area actually worried about their privacy.....

It would be like PETA protesting by eating live animals or something.

And likely to end your trip quit quickly & prematurely.

There is clothing that's desgigned for very quick removal. But I am quite sure wou would be in a lot of trouble for a stunt like that before everything gets sorted out.

I might choose the backscatter machine with "F the TSA" written in aluminum foil under my shirt.

Just make sure you actually spell it out.

> I plan on filing a complaint at the first hint of an off-color comment about what they're doing. "Better get new gloves, Fred!" --- "I'd like your name and your supervisor's name, now."

This sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll do this, too. I don't fly often, but this stuff really, really bothers me.

I'd rather not have my privacy invaded, but you make a fair point.

This is one of the few reasons I'm currently (actively) trying to stay away from the US. As far as it's in my power, I refuse to be presumed guilty, and go through such an offensive and ridiculous process.

Interesting. And you're right. If the inconvenience that authority imposes is less than filing complaints (in the long run), then I'm not going to bother. Inconvenience does not equal injustice, however, and I do not personally find pat downs unjust. My doctor checks for testicular cancer, so a professional (professional in the sense that the person is doing what s/he is doing for a living) who give my dick a pat to make sure it's not as hard as a gun does not faze me.

I think one should take a few minutes and write an email and/or call:

DHS, TSA, all the major U.S. airlines, along with their state and federal Reps and let them know what we thinks of this.

If we all do this...perhaps our voices will help turn the tide of this stupidity.

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