Hacker News Reader

In fact a lot of that "Italian" oil is superior Greek oil mixed with italian lampante

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/09/21/how-italian-comp...

Greek olive oil exporters have a hard time exporting it to retail , because it is hard to secure the large quantities needed and it varies seasonally. Also a lot of it is consumed domestically, often not even sold in supermarkets, but directly from producers. The rest of it is exported in bulk in cheap prices, mainly in Italy.

I'm also picky about olive oil. I've heard about countless scams in Italy about fake olive oil on TV. Also to me most commercial olive oils from the South (Italy, Greece, Spain) taste quite mild/soft compared to our olive oil from "Istrska Belica" / "Bianchera" variety.

We make our own olive oil, it is not a commercial endeavour so quality is first above everything else even though this variety is a PITA to grow. It is difficult to prune, more susceptible to various fungal diseases, has a tendency to produce on alternating years but the flavor makes up for those troubles.

Most commercial olive oils use heat extraction, which can also mellow the flavor (in addition to factors like fruit maturity and variety).

We have almost 100 trees of a common variety ("Oblica") that is regarded as very mild, and a few local varieties ("Lastovka", etc) which is usually considered very spicy and flavorful.

But I've made mellow Lastovka oil and sensational Oblica. There are a lot of variables to manage.

P.S. Naš je najlipše ulje. Naravno.

In addition to Italy, Europe as a whole is pretty picky when it comes to olive oil. As an anglo who was introduced to authentic olive oil imported from Greece.. there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil.

I think that in the northern parts of Europe we still seem to be pretty oblivious, so I would limit that to the Mediterranean area. And having tasted proper local food during my trips there, I can't exactly blame the people from there for being picky. Like you said, the taste difference is huge, and there also is a large romantic component to it: most recipes are quite simple, but rely on using fresh ingredients. It's very anti-industrial by nature.

docbrown says> "there is a very serious distinct taste difference between cheap and legitimate olive oil."

Is there a taste/test that someone like me, who is a neophyte and definitely not an expert, could distinguish/use?

A side by side comparison. It's very hard to miss, unless your sense of smell is diminished for whatever reason.

It should be "active" in your mouth, a bit peppery, and the taste should linger for a minute or more; it should taste like it's alive. It should be just slightly bitter and you should note a grassy flavor/aroma, like good Japanese green tea, as well as a distinct olive smell. It should be only barely acidic, as inferior oils have more acid.

If you're buying in a supermarket, you are almost always buying oil blends from multiple countries. Read the back of the label where a guide tells you where the oil came from; if you're lucky you can find one bottle that only came from one country. If at all possible, check the websites of the different options and see what production methods they use. Go with either first cold pressed (no added heat, pressed with mats to extract oil) or 2-centrifuge process.

If you're buying in an oil and vinegar tasting room, sample everything and go with what tastes best to you, because that's mostly the purpose of buying EVOO (in addition to the nutritional benefits of well produced EVOO). Ask the seller more questions and you will probably find that almost all the oils there are centrifuge-made, and they'll have maybe one bottle of mat-pressed oil in the back that's more expensive, and probably tastes drastically different than the rest.

You basically want to buy an expensive EVOO, and a cheap olive oil; the difference being that you would use regular olive oil for cooking, and EVOO for flavoring.

The first time I tried high quality olive oil was at at an Italian restaurant. The oil was delivered with a piece of freshly baked bread and a small container of salt flakes.

When I tasted it I thought it was unreal. It was that good.

I don't remember the restaurant or even where it was, but do remember the tasting experience!

>The first time I tried high quality olive oil >I thought it was unreal

For those people who may be having trouble understanding the comparison, this reaction would be the same reaction as if we were tasting supermarket hummus and legitimately homemade hummus.

One is McDonalds dry; the other is Michelin star silk.

Yes, exactly! The hummus comparison is spot on.

Another example: supermarket guacamole (that green weird-tasting paste) vs. guacamole from real avocados freshly made.

> supermarket guacamole

In the EU, the only requirement for being legally allowed to call something "guacamole" is that it contains avocado as an ingredient. In practice, that is usually a few percentages of avocado powder.

If you can find a way, try at least once to taste freshly pressed olive oil (by fresh I mean you are standing next to the oil press). This way you know for sure it hasn’t been blended or tampered with.

My grandparents would pick olives and press them. We would toast big loaves of bread on the coals and drench them in this fresh oil. It tastes totally different to what you can buy in the store (at least what I have had), or even how it tastes a week later. The peppery and acidic notes are surprisingly prominent, giving it a savoury quality that is very moreish. The texture is also quite different, it is thick and rich and heavy, but not greasy at all. It is kind of magic.

I am an Italian living in Vancouver, and I totally know what you are talking about. You can get pretty close to that by buying boutique cold-pressed olive oil. Here in Canada, I can only find it in high-end Italian grocery stores, and unfortunately the price is generally around 20-25 dollars / 500ml. But yes, you can find it.

> It tastes totally different to what you can buy in the store (at least what I have had), or even how it tastes a week later.

Weirdly enough that reminds me of colostrum, or first milk:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colostrum

Many years ago I started using an Iraqi olive oil that I still love to cook with. I can only buy it in Turkish shops, but I've never been able to find anything else quite like it. I live in The Netherlands.

If you happen to visit a wine growing region try instead to go olive oil tasting. Typically the two go together and I find different olive oils much more interesting. In addition if you bring back 2 or 3 good bottles of oil they will last much longer than 2-3 bottles of wine.

To that I'd suggest reading https://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-fake-extra-virgin-.... Since then I've bought California olive oil and giggled at all of the Italian brands.

About the article, my honest first thought was, "Does it matter? They already weren't selling olive oil in the first place, now they just have to pretend harder."

"You might raise your eyebrows at the conclusion that Australian and California extra virgin olive oils are purer than most Italian olive oils, since the research was partially funded by the California Olive Ranch and the California Olive Oil Council and has ties with the Australian Olive Association"

Well, most Italian olive oils sold in California. I think that makes it a lot less surprising. The regulations of the oil fraud police of Italy only apply to Italy, after all.

Also of note that Italian companies tend to sell their best food at home, where competition is fiercer and taste is more discerning. The exported stuff is traditionally weaker, because foreign markets are less picky.

Perhaps, but that's five years old and there's been no serious refutation I've heard of.

It's not like there aren't legitimate reasons to back a study that might reveal something you've long suspected, e.g. that your competitors are frauds...

California Olive Ranch is a great brand. Can't recommend it highly enough.

Interesting!

Since that article is from 2011, I wanted to see if there was any follow-up research on that. Using the paper's title as a starting point on Google Scholar I could only find better techniques for checking, but no papers sampling many brands. Then I noticed that the PDF was hosted on "olivecenter.ucdavis.edu"[0]. Going to that website revealed no further research either. In fact, the research tab of their menu links to example.com[1]. Bit annoying, that.

[0] http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/what-we-do/report%20041211%20...

[1] https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/

“Research” seems to be branch node, with live links only on the leaves, “Projects”, “Our Reports”, and “UC Olive Database". Which is a website fail, sure, but since the leaves are on the page navigation, not one that stops you from getting to the data (and since “Research” isn't a link on the nav bar, just a label, the only way to get to the broken page seems to be following breadcrumbs from one of the leaves.)

It only leads to example.com with JS disabled. It's actually an on-click dropdown menu with three options:

- Projects: https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/research/projects

- Our Reports: https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/research/reports

- UC Olive Database: https://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/research/publications

You guessed correctly that I had JS disabled. Thank you!

After I read about what passes for extra-virgin olive oil in the US I decided to try and get my hands on some domestic certified extra-virgin: I was blown away. I won't buy anything else now (not because of an article but because of the flavor.) It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the cheap stuff found in grocery stores is just canola oil and green food coloring.

I do the same as you're essentially guaranteed the pressed on date and a much fresher product than what's available at any shop sort of a dedicated oil store. A lot of what actually has a pressed on date labeled at the store currently is November 2017 harvest and with some 2016 harvests thrown in too! You can now order 2018 pressed oil if you go direct for the freshest product available.

I thought the same thing. When I buy "olive oil", I just think of it more as a style than a product actually made from olives. I don't think an olive tree crisis will have an impact on whatever I'm buying.

The French use regionalism with wine to control this without sounding... well let’s just say it: racist.

I’m surprised there aren’t appellations for Italian olive oil, if they care so much about it being domestic.

italy consumes 3 times as much oil as it produces.

But all bottles have a label that says where the oil or olives come from, it's just that nobody takes time to read it.

And of course, people want 1L of EVOO for 8 euros, not 20, so the big distribution carries mostly those.

Wow, I had no idea about the mismatch between supply and demand.

On a French wine label, the appellation is often the second biggest text on the label. IIRC on olive oil 'extra virgin' is the second biggest.

Maybe the appellation should assume EVOO and work from there?

Another problem is that the labeling laws apply only to oil bottles sold in Italy/EU. Most olive oil sold in North America by Italian companies will just say "Product of Italy" without mentioning that the olives used come from Tunisia or other countries. The US and Canadian labeling laws are a joke compared to most European countries, and should definitely improve on this.

I think we could apply the terms "nationalist", "patriotic", or even "chauvinistic" terms in this context without too much penalty.