California Man Pleads Guilty in Deadly Wichita Swatting Case | Hacker News Reader

California Man Pleads Guilty in Deadly Wichita Swatting Case

justice.gov

36 pointslnguyen23 comments

> A man who came outside to face police, however, had done nothing wrong and did not know about the swatting call. As he stepped onto the porch, police told him to put up his hands. When he unexpectedly dropped his hands, he was shot and killed.

The number of times I've read an account of this kind of scenario playing out in the past few years is absolutely mind-boggling and depressing. The fact that in the US you can so easily be shot to bits by police just by accidentally making a small incorrect movement is just insane to me. I understand that police face real threats and need to take precautions to protect their own lives, but surely there must a better system to accomplish this other than requiring someone to immediately perform a sequence of body movements without making a single mistake or else you kill them.

Non-deadly force has been completely ignored. Why not just incapacitate the suspect?

With the way incentives are set up right now, there’s no reason to. For all practical purposes, police are completely immune to any consequences of unjustified killings– DA’s never ever prosecute cops and internal affairs departments are do-nothing bodies designed only to make it look like there’s some accountability– so there’s no reason to not always use the maximum amount of force “just in case”.

Or, if you do get fired, you just move to the police department in the town next door, or from city to county, or county to state. It's the standard practice for communities with no incentive to prosecute (like the Vatican shuffling around rapist priests and bishops instead of bringing them to judgment).

Exactly. Surely we can figure out ways to incapacitate without killing. There are already options (eg tasers). If for some reason the existing tech isn't effective enough, well then too bad, that's what you get until we invent something better. Take all that govt money pouring into militarization of police and instead use it to innovate in non-lethal methods.

Tasers tend to have problems with clothing and distance, CS is easy to deal with if the person is trained, and bean bags are ineffective against large targets.

Non-lethal force is useful in cases where the police have no reason to believe the other person is armed. It works sometimes but often it doesn't. Police and military are even trained to resist non-lethal chemical attacks like CS gas very successfully. When a person is armed with contact weapon like a knife or club, non-lethal is usually only used when a lethal option is in place.

In my anecdotal experience from growing up in California's Central Valley, not one person I knew who became a cop _wanted_ to become a cop.

It was always their last "honorable" job choice. As such, they aren't mentally prepared to handle dealing with the shittier parts of society which shortens their fuse tremendously. No tolerance situations like this are a symptom.

I don't understand why police aren't legally restricted from firing their weapon unless they are fired upon or witness a suspect firing upon others. Soldiers are required to not fire unless fired upon. Yes, that means we may be putting officers in more danger, but they signed up for the job and killing innocent people is unforgivable.

There are clear rules about using lethal force in the United States which are the same for police as anyone else. The major difference is police are required to engage in situations that necessitate it rather than required to retreat from them.

Unfortunately the SWATer knew exactly what to say to provide the requirements for lethal force. Jeopardy, (I will kill you), capability (I have a gun), and Imminence (I will shoot them when they come out.)

The police had reasonable cause to believe the call was legitimate. Any reasonable person would have believed the same, given the information they were given and training they have gone through. Just because the guy wasn't pointing a gun at them didn't mean he couldn't do so before they can react. If you have time you can see demos and videos of situations exactly like this one that end with police and innocent bystanders being killed.

The blame lies with the SWATer himself and the systems that failed to recognize that the call was bogus. We can't blame police for failing to recognize that this situation wasn't like the ten others that they or their coworkers responded to where the man was armed and the kids were dead.

It's slow in coming but some police are trying to move in the opposite direction of instant lethal engagement. Houston Police Department now teaches non-lethal engagement techniques and officers are supposed to use those by default. Really nothing should happen if you just drop your hands, but getting a shotgun-fired beanbag to the chest or tasered is preferable to being shot.

Really the concern here is the insect-like behavior of this guy who had no concern for his fellow human beings or the consequences of his actions. I mean I'm sure he's very concerned now but the treatment of anyone who you don't agree with as an enemy needs to stop, whether we're talking about online gaming or politics. IMHO we need to reclaim our humanity; trying to get someone harassed or murdered by cop over $1.50 as happened in this story is sociopath behavior.

The man who pled guilty was calling in a swatting or a bomb threat every two to three days for the three months before he was caught. It took someone dying to actually get a serious investigation.

- Initial charges (including twitter logs, 911 call transcript) https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/05/24/barrissindictment.pdf

- 46 additional charges for bomb threats and other swattings. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5019352/Barriss-I...

What happened to the policeman who did the actual killing?

Looks like "nothing" - the DA declined to charge him and whilst there was an internal investigation, that doesn't seem to have gone anywhere either.

The contrast between the fate of the swatter and the killer is quite... striking. Makes it look as if police has no agency not to kill.

"When crime is acceptable, make no mistake.. the criminals will be the ones wearing the uniforms and badges of honor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynwood_Vikings

Indeed:

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article208738719.htm...

Probably a promotion.

Absolutely nothing, and both the city and the department have refused to release his name (though it's gone public regardless) or discuss him at all. IIRC, the police chief's statement made it clear that neither the officer nor the department was to blame for anything.

Which means this is going to keep happening. There's no incentive to change behavior on the individual level, or training on the department level.

What about this: A device that uses a camera and laser galvo to temporarily blind people by scanning a laser in their face. If someone is blind then they can't aim a gun. This could be useful for both police wanting protection from citizens and visa versa.

One of these days, there's going to be a swatting case that's deadly for the police.

That will become a precedent for why law enforcement needs to be even more militaristic.

Not swatting, but no-knock raids have gone badly for the police before[0].

[0] https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/courtroom-files/texas-man-fou...

And there, as here, the police refused to accept any responsibility for their actions.

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