Hacker News Reader

Comment by skizm | Hacker News Reader

According to some initial Googling, it looks like Foxconn had one year where 14 people committed suicide out of nearly one million workers (2010, their worst year for suicides). The general suicide rate in China is about 22 in 100,000. Seems like the Foxconn suicide rate is significantly lower, right? Or am I looking at the numbers wrong?

View on HN

You can't compare a corporation's suicide rate to a nation's because corporations filter out people through their hiring process.

You have to compare foxconn's suicide rate to other corporations.

This is a very good point, as unemployment is a possible trigger for depression and suicide.

However after some googling I could not find comparable statistics (sucide rates in large Chinese manufacturing companies). Do you know any sources?

Maybe the emphasis is too much on the suicides. It seems like the concern is not just about the suicide rate, but the general working conditions and lack of freedom in China, in Shenzhen, and at Foxconn. Here's a pro-labor take on the challenges workers are facing on China and efforts to suppress reporting about these challenges [1]. The suicides (at Foxconn, in China, and around the world) are exacerbated by poor economic conditions [2].

China also has a lower suicide rate than the US even [3] although I'd be skeptical of underreporting, given China's low press freedom ranking (176 out of 180 [4]) and low "human freedom" ranking [5]. It's speculation but worth considering that things may be worse on the ground than what's being reported.

[1] https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/condition-working-cl... [2] https://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/public-healt... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... [4] https://rsf.org/en/ranking [5] https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index

Yes. Work conditions in China are no doubt worse even than in the USA. I am reminded of an article in The Onion reporting that "Chinese Employers To Grant 15-Minute Maternity Break" [1].

Having said that, I'd assume that the conditions at Foxconn are better than many other (particularly smaller) employers. But it's hard to tell from the outside.

[1] https://www.theonion.com/chinese-employers-to-grant-15-minut...

Looked it up, it's 14 weeks which I guess isn't great.

Then mandatory breastfeeding breaks for the first year paid by the employer.

Better than the US which is zero

You don’t even need an onion article for the US:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/21/business/preg...

Unlike the Foxconn workers, those 22 were not all young, healthy, and employed. You are comparing different demographics.

In the UK the suicide rate amongst University students (young, often healthy, in education) is significantly higher (2017 95 suicides[0], about 2 million students[1]), about twice as high. I don't think this is an uncommon number in any western university system (I hope it is uncommon).

It is a bit off that we are shocked and appalled that a companies suicide rate is so high, when it is around half that of young students with their lives at their feet.

[0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44583922 [1] https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/facts-and-stats/Pages/highe...

My reasoning is that it's similar to student suicides that occur on university campuses - although the overall suicide rate by percentage is often much lower than the regional/national average, the topic of conversation is situated on what environmental conditions may be significant causes or factors for those suicides, whether it be student stress/mental health or hostile overwork.

I think you'd need to look at these adjusted by population, for instance well employed people in a certain area

You were probably never even looking at the correct figures. Given the track record of Chinese government at concealing the truth because it's deemed a threat to national security, how are they going to convince people this number is grossly understated?

If you cry you saw winnie the pooh irl, the 3rd or 4th time, people are gonna ask questions and demand you provide an independent inquiry led by a coalition of developed democracies.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com