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You write

> "I love my job...I even love my boss"

then go on to describe a nightmare. Read it! It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome!

Well done for getting it off your chest, now you need to go find something else. The situation probably can't be fixed. Sounds like you've made a lot of decent things as evidence of your skills. You could probably come back as a contractor/consultant for twice your current wage.

Oh, and if/when you do quit - no recriminations. You were offered an amazing opportunity that was too good to turn down. You really want to work in this new field. It's not you it's me, etc. Start documenting things for the next guy. Best of luck.

Edit: Also make sure to read Patrick's advice here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1829577

Edit2: Sorry, was wrong about Statury Sick Pay, thanks for the correction. 20 days holiday is definitely not right though.

You only get statutory sick pay when a doctors note is involved, which can only be gotten if you've taken more than two days off, aren't too sick to actually visit the GP and even then statutory sick pay is paid at minimum wage, I'm on £17k a year.

And thanks for the link!

I've no idea where in the UK you are but where I am (Edinburgh) the average wage for a salaried PHP Dev is £20k-£25k and this is a VERY cheap area. So i'd say you're drastically underpaid, especially if you're futher south.

I chose not to work in Edinburgh because of the terrible pay, I'm a PHP contractor and i work in London for £300-£350 a day for 3 months and then come back to Edinburgh after the contract is over. I go back when i start to run out of money again. You should look into doing this if its an option for you. Feel free to contact me if you want to talk more about it.

I'll be in touch. (And I'm from Wales).

this made me happy :)

It's proof positive again of why I love HN. I read and felt for you with your post then in no time, you may have found a light at the end of the tunnel.

Great news :D I can't wait to hear that it's worked out for you!

He wasn't offering him a job, I don't think :P

lol yeah, no i wasnt, but i'm happy to share how i get work and how to deal with getting paid etc.

:D - my misunderstanding. Got confused between user-names. Sentiment stands though.

Oh no! I realize that... but you're offering him the knowledge, confidence and support he needs to be able to make a lasting and positive change in his life.

If he's on £17k/pa and you're billing out £350 a day, then he only has to work 50 days per year to come out in the exact same place he's in now.

As long as he gets from you a list of those "first steps" on how to find the contracts. Even if he starts out billing only £50 per day (for fear of not finding work, in order to build a client list) he'd literally be no worse off than he is now (of course rent in London is much higher so ... I think he should at least bill £100/pd).

It sounds like he is a skilled developer with some niche knowledge in the auto market. Suffering perhaps from a lack of confidence (are my skills really worth that much?) and a bit of Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt (If I quit this hell-job will I have to go on public assistance? will I be homeless?)

He's got to make the leap and get out. No question of that in my mind ... but he also needs help and encouragement to do it.

That's what I saw you offering (not the job) ... it's just the seed of that mighty Oak that I've seen planted - but - I've already assumed that there's a happy ending to all this.

What can I say? I'm a dreamer and an optimist. Probably why I spend so much time reading HackerNews :)

Teach a man to fish and you've fed him for life.

I would suggest that he should start out at a bare minimum of £150 a day, especially if he has web sites that he has done before that are public facing (i.e. he can demonstrate his work). It is easier to lower prices than to raise them.

A second piece of advice is that if you are going to be a freelancer you should join the Professional Contractors Group (www.pcg.org.uk). They have an enormous amount of info on their pages, even more for members, and just by becoming a paid up member you get £70,000 of tax audit insurance.

i work in London for £300-£350 a day for 3 months and then come back to Edinburgh after the contract is over.

How do you make the living arrangements work on that?

For a while I was going to London and doing training gigs for £400 a day but gave it up because it was either too expensive (staying in London itself) or too much of a headache (staying outside London and getting the train in).

Flat sharing would be quite easy to arrange for that amount of time. I had a mate who lived and worked in London while staying at a hostel for an entire year.

You are massively underpaid for what you do given what you describe.

You are also not valued by your boss. Probably because he doesn't really understand what you do.

Get a job with a company that has some conception of what developers do and rewards them accordingly.

If you like your boss as a person, but not a boss, then try to keep him as a friend. But working for him does not sound like it is doing you any good.

I should add "try to make a living out of freelancing while you're looking for a much deserved better place to work; it seems to be you have what it takes"...

You can self-certify for up to one week's sickness, and it's paid at just under £80 a week, which may be more or less than minimum wage depending on how many hours you'd normally work.

It's pretty much useless if you're actually living on anything approaching a normal salary. (It's doubtful that £320/month would pay most people's rent.)

I am glad that I checked this thread after a fag and shit break without any one even noticing in the office. More than yourself, I couldn't have been lucky today. I am working for a small company, sole developer, more than 2.5 years now. I directly report to my director who's monitor is just behind my seat and who himself doesn't come from a technical background. But he is one of the most reasonable person I have come across as a boss, too excited about technology and gadgets, recently bought IPads for every suitable employee. Just like you sometimes I am overloaded with tasks and we are about to start one, two new projects in few months. We have just started looking for candidates via agencies and I have been given the responsibility to hire suitable candidate. Finding someone on HN, who has at least heard about Node, couldn't be more exciting for me. Here is the deal. I can offer you a min £25k salary, can go up to £35k, based on the skill set. We have 25 days holidays, private health insurance, pension scheme and sponsorship for training/courses. We are located close to Reading about 45 mins on train from London Waterloo. I can help you with finding an apartment close to town centre and railway station, if you are willing to move in. If interested, please email me at hanifkhan@gmail.com.

To the right of where I sit, is my boss, the son of one of the Managing Directors of this company.

100% of the gigs I've ever had working for a child of the founder were absolute hell. Looks like you're there, too. Run, don't walk, in the other direction!

Now I'm not saying that all children of founders are like this, just that it's my overwhelming experience. I don't know why this is, but I have many guesses. Perhaps they feel entitled, as if they actually built the business. Perhaps they have stunted social skills because they never needed them. Perhaps they feel superior to everyone else because they landed in a pot of gold having earned it only by being born.

You are not the problem. Your situation is. If your work is good, it's because he thought of it. If it's not, it's because you suck. You can't win. Get out.

Once you're in a more normal environment, two things will happen: you'll feel much better and you'll wonder why you took so long to do it.

I would like to point out that in this case, (not that I'm trying to sound overly supportive of the guy, but it's not that I hate him either), his dad fired him THREE times whilst working for him. His dad only hired him back after he had gone out and made something of himself (selling his own business for lots of money).

You still sound overly supportive of the guy. His dad actually hired him back at least twice before he had made something of himself.

Quit. Now.

This environment is noxious to your mental health, your sense of self-worth, your ability to get decent work in the future, and so on.

Quit. Now.

After you've handed in your notice, and they're exploding into fireworks of anger and "I can't believe this shit"-ness, tell them politely that you're available for consulting work with them over the weekends if they need help with the systems you've built for them, at a reasonable rate of £200/day.

Then go look for another job. You'll find one. IT staff are always in demand. If there really are no jobs where you live, move.

I don't necessarily disagree, but it can harder to find a new job if you don't already have one. You also have to explain to your new employer why you left your previous job, and "the place was a nightmare," even if true, is rarely a good thing to say. Your new employer may wonder if you are dependable.

Whatever you do, do not accept a counter-offer, and do not let your boss guilt-trip you into staying. When you decide to leave, you are gone.

The job search can take a long time, so don't get discouraged if you don't find something immediately -- prepare yourself for the fact that it may take a few months. If it happens any sooner, then you will be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck.

Your boss has never managed more than one developer: You. Your boss doesn't really listen to you describing how you should be managed, so instead he compares you to other people he has managed, i.e. the sales guy and the designer guy.

Until your boss has personally experienced managing several developers, he doesn't have enough datapoints to know where you fall on the spectrum.

The only way he can get that experience is by you quitting so he has to hire a replacement. Arguing with him, pleading with him, explaining what you do, etc, won't give him the experience.

It also sounds like this is your first job, so do both yourself and your boss a favor: Quit.

You will get more experience of different workplaces so that you can accurately tell if they're good or bad workplaces. There's a reason most of the comments here (from more experienced developers) tell you to quit, and tell you that your workplace sucks.

Your boss will get more experience managing developers and a better appreciation for the value you bring.

"It has come to the point where whenever he starts his rant, I put my headphones on, or I shout at him, or I get very angry and walk off for a while. I really cannot work under these conditions for very much longer, and to be honest I am really ashamed with how I am handling his rants and outbursts."

On the one hand I totally understand your reaction. On the other hand, I'm inclined to think it is probably counterproductive. Remaining cool and collected seems like a better idea.

"Therein lies the problem. Where I live, there are no jobs. Some statistics recently suggested that a snowball had a better chance of opening an ice cream shop in the deepest layer of hell than I have of getting another job."

If it is, in fact, true that there are no jobs available in your current location, can you move? I'm originally from a rural state that has very few technical positions available. Living in a major metropolitan area has definitely opened up my options.

Even if you can't, it is entirely possible that you can make a living by doing contract work. This may take time to build up to, but if you are capable of demonstrating quality work you will eventually be able to sustain yourself. Working a part-time non-programming job might fill the gap if you feel the need to quit right now.

"Does anyone else browse the net in work when they are having a hard time focusing, but not blatantly trying to hide it and yet get rebuked even when the only other option is to sit, knuckles dragging drooling on the keyboard whilst staring at the screen because your brain no longer works?"

I don't have the boss problem since I work from my home office. But when I am unable to focus I try getting up and walking outside for five minutes. The sunshine and fresh air helps give me some perspective.

I hope this helps!

There are about 30 - 40 developers in my office and everyone browses the web whenever they feel like it. Our group has super tight deadlines (consumer electronics) and our boss' focus is always on making sure we hit all our deadlines no matter how tight our parent company makes the deadlines. That being said, all of our leadership (in house) are promoted Software and Electrical Engineers. This is true from our VP down to our team leaders and project managers.

I suspect it's different for someone working in an office with a lot of business people but I think it's important to find an employer that recognizes doing work on complicated problems isn't a linear process... It will often times now be something you can sit down and just DO. I can't even count the number of times I've spent 3 hours of over time in the office trying to solve a problem only to have the solution come to me in the shower the next morning. The mind must rest and be allowed to shift focus to something unrelated to the immediate activity at hand if someone wants creative solutions to tough problems.

> Some statistics recently suggested that a snowball had a better chance of opening an ice cream shop in the deepest layer of hell than I have of getting another job.

You could not be more wrong. I organise the London Hacker News meetup and speak weekly to people who are DESPERATE to get a good developer. Unemployment may well be high, but there is huge demand for good developers. Unless you have very strong ties to the area I would recommend moving closer to a big city and you'll be able to make considerably more than £17k.

Dmitri speaks the truth. I'm in the process of joining a company after meeting one of the founders at his meetup last month (White Bear Yard).

At £17k, you could be doing better driving a bus in London.

Except that in order to live somewhere he could afford on a London bus-driver's salary, he'd need to be somewhere awful (actually, I don't know whether London has awful-and-cheap bits these days) or way out of town with a horrible commute.

None the less: yes, there are more and better jobs in cities. There's also more competition for those jobs, though. I'll hazard a guess that although there's a lot of unemployment where the OP lives now, the unemployed people there are probably mostly not software developers.

You can get a good room in Dalston for £500 a month, starting salary should be from £25k and up.

According to the BBC, In the city I live, there is around 8 unemployed people for every 1 job here.

I'd love to work/live in London, but I am a bit nervous about getting down there because I don't have a degree. I'm completely self taught.

That doesn't matter. When I hire I don't even look for a degree, I look for code, I look for things you've built, and built well. Then I look for a person who I will like and get along with.

I don't know how the programming climate in UK, but here in west coast US, I am almost always the only one who have computer science degree in the team.

But, most of my coworkers (who don't have degree) are fantastic hackers, wielding /usr/bin like magician, appending to fifo as hack-around, compiling xen kernel from source, etc.

So, don't get discouraged. If your situation is agile (being single or without children), move to big city, embrace its big-cityness, and enjoy its salary.

I doubt the BBC is talking about developers. You have skills which are in strong demand.

It sounds like you are reasonably experienced and that MAY make up for the lack of a degree. Also, in web dev a degree is really not necessary and there are plenty of people in the industry who are self taught.

If you would like to improve your CV, contribute to some open source projects on github on a few weekends. I guarantee that will put your CV on top of the pile if are a decent coder.

Many places will be able to do a first round interview over the phone, which should cut down on travel hassle. Also, if London is too far away there are plenty of good employers in Bristol which should be a bit easier for you.

Anyway, if you need any more help / advice drop me an email on d.grabov@gmail.com

You have something better than a degree, you have work experience. I really wouldn't be worried about the number of unemployed people around - you have specialized skills that are in demand and most of them don't. It may be that they'll all try to apply to any job they see, making the matching of jobs to candidates harder for all concerned but I really wouldn't worry about it too much.

Interview with places in London. If you get a job, move.

I don't know about the UK, but most software companies (unless they're populated by ex-googlers) in the US simply don't care if you have a degree as long as you can do the work.

> They even outsourced me to develop a ticketing system for a [potentially recognisable car service] company, to the tune of more than half my annual salary for four weeks work.

And it didn't occur to them that this meant you were worth more than they thought? They're hopeless. Run away. Take some of your vacation days and go interview someplace where you can be a profit center instead of a cost center.

We have to take 4 days over Christmas because the dealership is shut, I have used 15.5 days :(

Maybe after January.

STOP. MAKING. EXCUSES.

You're a poster child for Stockholm Syndrome. You are completely and utterly playing by their rules. Just start looking for a new job, that is something you can do when not at work, and if things progress as far as you getting an interview, take the day off from your job and deal with that problem then. Call in "sick". Say you've got a funeral. Take a vacation day anyway. When you get there, you'll realize you don't actually care about your current workplace that much after all.

But by leaping to the problem first and then declaring that you can't solve it right now, you're setting yourself up for failure. You're just manufacturing excuses for staying in the position you're currently in. STOP. IT.

After he runs out of sick days, I'd advise him to just stop showing up for work on interview days. They're not going to fire him, he's not interested in staying there, and the bridge that he might conceivably burn is built out of bubble gum and toothpicks, anyway.

Half a day would be enough to interview at the nearby place that paid the equivalent of £102K/year for you. Ask for £80K/year, they'll think they're getting a bargain. If you save half of it, you'll still be much better off, and you'll be building up a reserve so that, later on, you can quit and spend time interviewing in a city where there are good jobs.

Go to 4 interviews and tell those bastards you plan to leave before Christmas.

I'm not sure if you're setting expectations with him. I have this problem to some extent. Some of our guys email around everyone telling them what they're doing, asking questions, trying to get feedback from everyone else. Others have clammed up, don't talk, shut themselves in. When the guys that talk about what they're doing (and some of it is weird obscure stuff, so they kindly abstract it) then you know they've been working hard. The guys who were quiet, never said anything, then you walk past them one time while they're taking their lunch late at around 3 because they've been working on something, well it looks like they've been goofing off. The reason is that this is all the information that I as a manager have been provided with. I know my guys enough to know that they're not goofing off, but it can be a bit like herding cats sometimes.

If you tell your boss what you're doing at a high enough level ("I'm working through this set of problems to do with the way the car valuation service talks to us - they don't have any documentation so I'm having to work it out by hand", or "I've been looking through the code I've written to deal with car valuations, I think I can speed it up a lot and reduce the load on the computers so we don't have to buy new ones later") and put it in terms he'll understand he'll know you're working hard.

Some people are shit managers. I should know, I are one :) Sometimes it's easier to manage your manager than the other way around.

Also your 20 days holiday is below the legal minimum.

"Also your 20 days holiday is below the legal minimum."

No, as pointed out above, 20 days holiday, on top of 8 public holidays, is the legal minimum.

Ah, I thought this was including public holidays.

Apparently the business closes for 4 days on Christmas which counts against their vacation time. That might not be legal.

Not sure why this isn't rated higher. Everyone is telling him to quit and walk away instead of trying to make it work.

I'd go further then what iuguy proposed. Every morning, check in with your boss by email or face to face and let him know what you will be working on for the day. At the end of the day, do the same, but with what you accomplished. Ask that all tasks to you be in written form and you will prepare a timeline for their completion. When you complete them, make sure he knows it was on time. Do a weekly/monthly report where you lay out all the projects you did for that time period and how long they took. If he is still an ass.. quit.

Regardless of the scarcity of jobs in your area, you need to find a better one. What you describe are his problems, not your own.

Do everything you can distinguish yourself from the competition, i.e. other jobseekers. Build a stunning personal/portfolio site if you don't have one already, work on side-projects in your spare time and share the source on github, write a blog, consider relocating if that is an option for you.

But definitely don't simply settle for what you have now. You are right that it is an abusive environment and you owe it to yourself to move on.

I'm talking to this guy on IRC right now.

"Thanks for all the responses! Unfortunately it looks like HN thinks I was replying too fast, and I am now blocked from posting new comments. I will continue to read replies though, thanks."

ok, in a previous life I solved this in the following way: fire up a terminal, download lynx, set up a scary color scheme, then consume the web from the command line. This has 2 great effects:

1) You won't be looking at all those stupid picture threads 2) Monospaced white on black font works like a scarecrow on most people

Next, find yourself a better boss

+100 for "find yourself a better boss". The recurring theme of this thread seems to be "no one understands (or is willing to admit) what value you bring to this organization", and I couldn't agree more.

It's possible to have a great time working in a language you hate, on hardware that sucks, but only if you have a great team and great boss that appreciate what you contribute.

> Trying to discuss this with him really isn't working. Any advice?

My guess is that you not so unemployable as you seem to think. I'd look for another job in a company/industry where you're not just a 'cost'.

That's really how I feel here. Just a cost. He tells me he has to justify our "team"'s existance to his dad whenever he sees him.

The graphic designer does all print and web graphic design,

The Marketing manager does all copy, liaises with the print firms and manages marketing targets and plans with all the dealerships group wide,

I do all the web stuff.

If there's a car dealership that doesn't need to market or advertise to people to sell cars, I haven't seen it.

> If there's a car dealership that doesn't need to market or advertise to people to sell cars, I haven't seen it.

Ok, but you're never really going to be the "star of the show" like the sales guys are. That's why I suggested finding an alternative industry where they're happier to have a developer on board.

In a sales organization if you aren't a salesperson you are seen as a cost center. If you want to get their respect build some web only promotions and tell your boss you want a cut of the commission of every car sold through them or even better handle the sale yourself and take all the commission.

> He tells me he has to justify our "team"'s existance to his dad whenever he sees him.

Okay, so I don't want to go off at the deep end here, but I think the general consensus is correct: this isn't healthy and you're best bet is to leave.

It seems to me that his dad bullies him and he in turn bullies you. Also, if they really thought you don't add value to the company, they would fire you. Clearly you do, so they are just jerking your chain and making you feel dependant on them. They are lying. They have you in what has been called a sick system [1].

[1] http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

I've got a couple of car related websites that I'm planning to build soon, and having a web dev with some domain knowledge of the car industry in the UK would be really useful. If you're interested pop me an email and we can discuss further.

it doesn't seem like you even tried looking and are dismissing that because you think you have nothing to offer

based on the things you've done, I'd imagine there'd be plenty of companies that would have you...hell you can probably contact every dealer in your area and offer your services that should pretty much be exactly what they are looking for.

20 days holiday? In the UK? That sounds like USA holiday time to me, mate. And if you're starting a new job in the US, that would be positively generous, I'm sorry to say.

That is actually the legal minimum in UK, though it does not include 8 bank holiday days.

Ha, I wish we started with 20 days in the US. Starting out in the US you get 10 days of vacation at most companies (though also 10 federal holidays, so 20 total). At my company after 5 years you get 15 days, after 10 years you get 20 days. After 20 years you get 25 days. Yuck.

20 (working) days is four weeks - most places in the US only start someone at 10 days. I got lucky and landed at a place that starts with 15.

I get ten days, of which five is mandatory while the office is closed over the Christmas to New Year break.

10 days here. Sick day is vacation. Plus 5 observed federal days. Ugh. And my day was going so well.

In Finland, 30 vacation days / year is the legal minimum for full-time employment, not counting bank holidays.

(There's an additional provision that's a bit strange: the employee has to be able to use at least 24 of those vacation days in May-September. I think this law is a remnant from the agricultural society of the mid-20th century, when people in the cities actually needed those vacation days specifically in the Summer so that they could return to the countryside to help their families in farm work.)

To echo what other's have said here, it sounds like they have you in a sick system [1] and it's basically abuse. You should talk to your GP; they should be able to get some proper talking therapy/counselling instead of random people on the internet. This will help and is nothing to be ashamed of — I've had it myself.

Also, 17k is a pittance for a qualified developer, which you are. Find some new adventures, you can do it. If where you is is so remote, then move, or commute, or telecommute. Your very resistance to leaving is a sign of the damage they have already done to you.

[1] http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

To add to the sound GTFO advice posted already: When you do get a new job (and you should), make sure you're on the revenue side of the business rather than contributing to the company's costs.

Apart from the outsourcing you've done, your work is viewed by your employer as an expense rather than adding to the bottom line. When it comes time to cut the budget, you'll likely be lumped in with the 'fat' which can be removed without much pain.

Conversely, if you find a job where you are part of the engine bringing in revenue (whether as a consultant or a product developer), you will generally be treated much better and have more opportunities for advancement.

I absolutely surf HN and other sites throughout the day. My brain needs a distraction every once in a while. As long as your work gets done, I don't see a problem with this. Intellectual pursuits and positions are not monotonous assembly lines, it is simply not possible to focus 100% of your attention 100% of the time. You need breaks.

While I don't see a problem with this, your boss quite clearly does. Not only that, he's handling his displeasure with you in a demeaning way. And as you say, it all seems to stem from the fact that he doesn't understand your work or what goes into you doing your work.

"I am really ashamed with how I am handling his rants and outbursts."

Have you tried sitting down with him (in private) and expressing your concerns about his expectations and the unhealthy working environment that he's creating for you?

I think that expressing your concerns in a very matter of fact manner is completely reasonable. I would start by focusing the discussion on the value that you bring to the team. Try to get your boss in the frame of mind that you are valuable, you do your work well and on-time. Then shift the conversation to the concerns you have. Use a lot of "I feel .." type sentences. Focus not on what he's doing wrong, but rather on the things that would help you to work better and feel happier. Try to frame it in a positive path. Also ask him what his concerns are. Don't be defensive (or rather try desperately hard not to be). Hear what he's saying to you and then try to say things along the lines of, "I hear what you're saying. I even understand how it might look like that. I can assure you that I'm a team player and I'm always looking to deliver the best that I can. From my perspective, sometimes I need to let the challenge at hand ruminate. That might mean that I need to look for a solution on the internet, or even take 5 mins and think about something else. Just to let it all process. At the end of the day I want to let you know that I enjoy the work here, and I think that I deliver real value to the company."

Keep in mind that your boss (who seems to be woefully inexperienced or at least very poor at managing technical staff) might not appreciate it. But at the very least you come out knowing that you handled the situation in a professional manner (great story for the next interview).

Another option is to get a feed of HN to your terminal (I saw something like this once). It'll blend into your work flow more. Even RSS feeds to your email.

Here is a link to the HN feed in the terminal that I was remembering:

http://www.catonmat.net/blog/follow-hacker-news-from-the-con...

You should try working for a tech company where your skills are "directly" connected to the products.

It sounds like you work as a support group for the company. In my experience is usually underpaid, over-worked and the resources are not that high compared to the ones that are in the "frontline". And you rarely get notices for the great things you have done.

Came here to post this. You are most likely underpaid given the breadth of cool stuff you're building. Android and the scripted automation you mentioned are particularly good.

My advice is to contact a recruiter immediately and get used to the idea of moving around a bit. Look into telecommuting gigs as well. As long as you feel that you're lucky to have this job where you're undervalued you won't be happy with your life.

Find out what you're really worth. Find out what you're capable of.

I've been in situations like this where people just simply don't understand what it takes to write software. The fact of the matter is that HOW things get done is so widely varied, it can be incredibly confusing to a non-coder. For example, one particular problem may take 100 lines of code and 5hrs to solve while another may take 5 hours of thinking through the problem and 10 lines of code to solve.

If you're boss doesn't understand this, chances are he never will, so like others, I would suggest you begin the search for a new job. Another option would be to return to freelancing... chance are you could still contract back to the current company while you're looking for new clients if you had to.

Alternatively, you could print out every single line of code you've written at the company and dump it on your bosses desk so he can see how much work it really is (since you mention he's extremely visual).

Are you interested in .NET? Would you be willing to move? (We're close to Heathrow Airport)

If so, email me at iolande@gmail.com - the company I work for is recruiting. Experience with .NET is less important to us than a demonstrable passion for solving problems and learning new technologies. Sounds like it might be a good fit :-)

I wouldn't be able to work like that personally, code I write comes out in bursts and then I have a little bit of time where I'm just formulating my next move. I often check HN during the day just to look at something else then code.

It's never going to be easy to work in a non tech place and have them understand what you do. You seem to have been there for a while and are getting tired of the place, it might be time even if you don't think so to look around.

The last thing I can think off is that you are building interesting stuff. Stuff that seems to have real value, have you though of building products and selling them yourself? You could even try to get your current employer as a first customer (by keeping the relationship good ;p)

EDIT: One thing I forgot, do you think he might be on your case because he also gets crap from his boss? Sometimes it could be that simple.

I feel for your situation, 'cos coding for me is actually more like 50% writing code and 50% daydreaming/browsing/whatever. Coding is a creative task.

Typically though I'll think of an excellent shortcut/solution after an hour of staring into space, and that shortcut saves about a days work. Problem is, how do I quantify that saving?

In the past I've spec'ed work to my boss on how long it would take to do a project the 'typical way' and got approval, and then it's just a matter of delivering it in less time than that. But if your boss can't estimate time to do tasks anyway, that's not going to help.

As a short term fix, you might want to take up smoking , or start drinking a lot of water, or something else that will let you get out of your chair for 5 minutes every hour.

I do smoke, and I barely get away with 2 5 minute breaks a day.

I don't smoke and don't recommend it generally, but for work it has absolutely its merits, and this doesn't sound right at all...

This is a quote from him last week:

"Between the fag breaks, shit breaks, you aren't getting ANY work done!"

He laughed when I told him to go and fuck himself, like I was joking.

Get Out Now.

You'll probably have an 'exit interview', during which you can suggest that you'd continue to do the current major projects for 75% of what they're paying you now - but you'd be working off-site, against a set of milestones (just like a real contractor).

Benefits to them : They'd save on paying you to slack off... and on the various National Insurance stuff too. It would be a win-win.

Benefits to you : You'd get the opportunity to say NO, which seems like it would be a novelty. Moreover, you'd have time to pitch your services to others to fill up the other 50% of your time. Don't sign a non-compete, unless you're getting paid to do so.

Why would he take a pay cut?

You need to move to a different area. Hell, maybe a different country.

This is a bad job.

You have limited options. I suggest using the internet for reference material only (no HN or Slashdot allowed). Your boss is not going to change. What is your job worth to you now? Do you need more compensation? If so, I suggest working on leverage first:

1) Apply for other jobs, even if you must move. Only with a job offer do you have leverage to get more pay.

2) Would ODesk or eLance provide enough income to live where you are?

3) When burned out, get out of your desk and walk around find out who knows who.

4) The only way you can get another job is through your contacts. #1 is a terrible way to get a job. Expand your list of contacts.

My boss has the tremendous habit (when he is actually in the dealership), of coming into the office and looking straight at my screen, with the now dreaded words, "Is that work?", usually followed by "Come on [throwaway_burn]! Focus! Get some fucking work done!"

"I am getting fucking work done, Larry. This right here is work. Unless you know how to code a script to get the data this site needs from our web servers with no documentation, then this is how I know to solve that problem. Did you still want it solved or has something changed?"

You've definately got to spread your wings and move on. Be cordial with your old boss, offer to help them out/transition as you leave. The fact that they subbed you out means that they aren't ignorant of your market value - they've just decided to exploit you. On the bright side, the designer you leave behind might get a raise when you leave. :-)

In the meantime, start thinking like a contractor. I keep a log to help my remember what I was doing on such and such a day [I swear I must be senile sometimes] and I keep track of every minute worked. I wrote a program to total up the hours. I do this if I'm working for a client or an employer.

When someone phones me at work I say "Hold on, let me get off the clock." and write down the time. Then I talk to them as long as a I want. When I'm done, I "punch back in" and resume working. I do the same whenever I feel like taking a break.

This system removes any guilt I would feel about taking a long lunch, talking to a friend on the phone, coming in late, etc. It also makes it easy to answer the question: "What did you do last week?"

Here's a sample log entry: 2/9/2010 Tuesday 11:05 AM - 12:47 PM 2:49 PM - 3:21 PM 5:13 PM - 6:51 PM Working on depth sorting. Transparency is sort of working for one gamut - the last one drawn. Need to sort polygons for faces for all gamuts at once, not each gamut individually. Doh!

Tomorrow: See if order of drawing Gamuts is enough to fix transparency problem (draw closest gamut last).

Have you tried taking control of his perception of your working day? I've had bosses in the past where the only way to manage them and their expectations was to maintain a narrative of what you were up to.

Perhaps you could schedule a weekly (daily) catch-up with your boss to explain what you're doing, any issues you've had etc. If he won't commit the time to sit down with you, email him a bulleted list of what you're doing that week/day. Don't get lost in the detail but try to highlight any particular wins (e.g. "the database server we'll need for the quotation site is up and running") and any particular roadblocks ("[web services firm] haven't sent the documentation through I requested. I've scheduled a call for Monday to try and get it sent"). If you're not making the progress you expected/hoped for, always present it in a positive light by explaining what you're doing to deal with it.

If he is always coming to you to find out what you're doing, it might be that he's doing it at the wrong time for him (when he's dealt with all his crises and is tired/stressed) or for you (when you're having a short HN-break in which case you appear to be 'always' slacking).

I had a situation very similar to this; I quit and started freelancing. One of the smartest (well...most worthwhile, probably not the smartest) things I've ever done. I had it easy as a single college student---if you're supporting a family it's a bit different---but if you're in the same position, do it. Move if you have to. There are worse things than hating your dead-end job. But not a lot of them.

I would think, that in a company where your boss or managers understands what "the work is" that you do, you wouldn't have those problems.

Such a boss would treat you better, by not openly questioning your worthiness, better pay or even payed sick days.

You should move. Into an environment of bosses competing for the best talent.

Here is the best advice I can give you knowing nothing about you outside of work:

#1 Take a day and get some fresh air before winter hits. Go on a hike - spend at least 4 hours by yourself on the trail. Imagine the perfect (reasonable) life - where do you live, who is there with you, what do you do each day?

#2 Can you plot a line from where you are right now to where you want to be? If you still want to do development, can you use what you are currently doing as part of a portfolio to show future employers? Do you have a portfolio of your work? Spend the next two weeks at work taking screenshots, making notes, etc, of EVERYTHING you've done at the company for the last two years. You don't know what you'll want later, and if it is internal or changed you won't be able to get it when you want it. Remember that ticketing system you made? Screenshots of that too, especially if that recognizable company's name is on it. If it's not on it, put it on it, then take another screenshot.

#3 You say you don't have mobility in terms of changing jobs. Why is that? Experience, education, geography? Can you stomach moving if you got a better job offer? What salary would you move for? You have no degree - how would your prospects differ if you had one? How old are you now and when will you retire? Is it worth working part-time, schooling full-time to earn the degree in order to have 30+ years of increased happiness?

#4 You don't want to be seen as a cost (of course not, it is like saying what you do is not important to the company or team). It sounds like your boss outsourced your efforts to another firm and he made a profit from it. It is easy to look at this like you're being taken advantage of - but look at it another way - this is your opportunity to move from "cost" to "pays for himself" to "profit making." Tell your boss to find two more of those outsource gigs for other dealers and he will start thinking about you differently because he will be able to directly measure your output.

#5 When you do start to look for the next job, think about how those new jobs work for their companies. If you're making websites and you work for a hospital, you're a "cost" again. If you make websites and work for a company that makes websites... it is a little different. In your next job try to find a position where you work with other technical people. It can be really hard to be the lone technical person in an office (just like I'm sure the graphic designer can have a hard time being the lone designer). Spend time now working on your resume, don't wait until you see a job listing you want or meet the right person. You need to have it ready so at any time you can send it out (so you're not in a rush and make errors).

Ok, here is the summary:

#1 Fresh air, introspection.

#2 Build your portfolio. Be able to prove to a non-technical person that you have been doing something for the last two years (besides taking a paycheck).

#3 Set your goals, identify obstacles and solutions. Be flexible and open minded to your options.

#4 Find ways your boss can directly measure your performance in ways that matter to him.

#5 Be prepared for the next opportunity. Keep your resume up-to-date. Start today.

Outstanding advice.

I can really empathise with the OP and to be honest, your advice has helped clarify a few things for me so if the OP takes nothing from it, rest assured that I have taken plenty!

As someone who has changed jobs several times during my (admittedly brief) career, I can attest that this is good advice.

Keeping a portfolio of work, and a way for other people to judge your skills, is key. This can be as simple as a github account with some throwaway projects that show off your coding style + preferred languages/frameworks, or your own website, with custom wordpress theme, interactive portfolio work, etc.

It's a little scary to jump into something new, but you'll be challenged again, and given an opportunity to work with people that will appreciate and (more importantly) understand what you do.

Sounds like you need a "boss mode" for your screen and also for your approach to the job.

Frankly sometimes it's important to look busy. Or in other words, to better communicate the value you're producing.

Maybe you should try to have some sort of deliverable every few days or every week. Or, make him make the tough decisions about delaying the quoting system b/c you have to create a local copy of the db vs paying extra money for a solution designed for local hosting.

If he's saving your anual salary in the 4 weeks you take to do it, then he'll view himself as very wise for having made that decision, and greatly enjoy the savings.

If he's a jerk, then quit, but if he's not then try some of the above and maybe it will make your job more fun.

On the one hand, you could use some new skills managing perceptions at the office -- to move up significantly in the programming profession, you're going to have to lead people down the path of understanding both how valuable you are, and also how difficult what you do is.

Many engineers aren't good at this.

But, I echo almost everyone here who thinks you're in a toxic situation -- you should get out; so much of your perception of what's normal and reasonable in a work situation is being formed in your horrible, horrible one that it's hard to keep your head straight. Nothing is likely to fix this for you, and getting some new job skills to allow you to keep working in this place isn't a good option for your emotional health.

A low risk situation for you would be to find some contracting work, then give notice, given what you've said, I'd suggest you give notice first to the boss's dad, explaining the situation. If you can't do that in person, at least write a polite note explaining:

I like you guys, but the market is offering quadruple your pay rates right now, and the work environment is not enticing enough to make me want to stay. Best regards, blah. Do this to minimize badmouthing effects by your now-jilted boss; it won't solve everything, but it's worth going over his head in a situation like this. Don't knock him, just explain that you can make X and Y with double the vacation, better benefits, and etc. etc. elsewhere.

After notice is given, and you've started at least one other gig (<<<<---- Important to build confidence and reset 'normal' in your head), accept contracting work they offer you with the following rules: at least triple, no, make that quadruple your current hourly rates, and you choose the location, that is, you come in for meetings and delivery, and do the rest from wherever you like.

In situations like this, it's not unlikely you'd get a call when you leave -- they sound seriously unappreciative of the work you're punching out, and hopefully the market will teach them that in short order on your leavetaking.

In any event, leave as fast as you can -- you might be surprised how differently you feel about yourself and the world once you've made the jump.

I used to have a similar boss who didn't understand what it was I did: he would pay me compliments for the simplest of tasks, and not acknowledge when I had done something awesome.

Anytime I had an issue like this I'd just call him on it and explain, and he'd turn around. For the record, he was a complete asshole in every possible way, not a nice guy who sadly didn't understand - but he still wasn't able to keep whining once I'd laid out why something had taken me so long.

You say you've tried to make him understand, but I suspect you just haven't gone about it the right way (partly due to your description of your reaction to his complaints).

Imagine yourself in his shoes, managing someone who's job you didn't understand, plan out what that someone would have to say to you to get you to understand. Then take that speech, work out which bits will and won't work on your boss, tailor it exactly to him. When trying to pursuade him you shouldn't be thinking on your feet straight after he's made you angry, you should already know exactly what to say.

If that fails, the thing to do before resigning is to write a letter (or email) explaining that you love your job, you love working with him, but that you are finding it so stressful you feel you will need to leave if it doesn't change. Explain exactly why you feel stressful, make it clear you understand where he's coming from, empathise with his situation, then give examples of why you work the way you work.

Draft the letter, leave it a couple of days, then write it again from scratch, then compare the two drafts for differences, and pick the best bits from each. Show it to a friend or a colleague you trust, get feedback. Think of the letter as an importent piece of art that needs to be worked on until it's perfect. Most of all, make sure you avoid giving him the impression that you blame him, dislike him, think he's stupid for not understanding your job, or anything along those lines.

On a side note, consider whether you can use any arguments along the lines of "I need to read HN to stay current with technology, to enable me to keep programming to modern standards." Maybe look around for a scientific study showing that short breaks of the kind you take actually produce a net gain In productivity, etc.

> "..write a letter (or email) explaining that you love your job, you love working with him, but that you are finding it so stressful you feel you will need to leave if it doesn't change. Explain exactly why you feel stressful, make it clear you understand where he's coming from, empathise with his situation, then give examples of why you work the way you work.... Most of all, make sure you avoid giving him the impression that you blame him, dislike him, think he's stupid for not understanding your job, or anything along those lines."

Completely disagree. This is not marriage counselling, this is the job market.

The OP is being exploited. I've seen this kind of thing happen loads of times. It's too late to adjust the power balance between him and his boss. The OP needs to find better employment - he could team up with a designer and build sites for businesses and earn twice as much sitting at home. It's also very important that he leaves the door open to well paid contracting offers from his current employer.

If he loves his job, as he says he does, he'd be stupid to not even try and resolve the issues.

My suggestions aren't exactly along the lines of "just put up with it" or "give it a few years". He can easily try these steps while job hunting - won't delay him at all.

I went down this road, and it kept me happy enough to stay at an awesome company.

You like the job but not the guys breathing down your neck. So why not ask if you can work from home every other day to transition into a full time stay-at-home employee? Sounds like you get a lot done for them, if they can't accept that then you really do need to find someone who can. This could give you time to peruse Craigslist or other online sources for freelance work. There is a lot of demand in other places for web developers, if you can tap into that source you could do quite while.

What languages do you code in / where are you based?

PHP, Javascript (right now mostly Node.js, but obviously frontend stuff overall), Bash, Java although nothing major / Wales

The internet is a terrible distraction; you shouldn't be browsing on the company time. Looking up documentation is fine; the occasional news article on your lunch break is fine.

Whilst at work you should be 100% focused on the task at hand. On the flip side it’s important to realise you are working as a professional developer not a grunt on a factory assembly line, if you require time to rethink things instead of sidetracking with internet browsing, get thinking: draw diagrams, use a whiteboard, write notes, print out code. You know your boss is visual so use visual things.

Additionally it's quite clear you are frustrated with management, this generally happens when an inadequate communication system is in place.

Make it an issue to outline responsibilities and tasks to your line manager. Just write everything down that you do and email at the end of the work day. That way he can quantify your usefulness with his manager. It's a rule of work: make your managers life easier not harder. If an issue of work load arises again you have documented evidence to refer to.

Having a slanging match with a manager sounds awful, unprofessional and frankly doesn't say much for your or his attitude. Coming in late might be overlooked but you are essentially stealing from the company. 20x7x52/60/24 = 5. That's a work week you're taking off, I might overlook it but I wouldn't forget it.

Can you move your desk to somewhere else, somewhere where your boss won't visit often?

If the boss thinks you're goofing off, moving your desk will look like trying to sneak off and goof off more.

Yes. Or he might just forget about it altogether.

If you decide to stay with this boss, then every time he asks "is this work?" -- ask him for 10% raise.

You did your time. Get the hell out and start something new.

This is all nauseatingly familiar to my current circumstances.. thanks for posting!

Your boss is a jerk. Quit now, or as soon as possible (how much notice do you have to give?)!!

Ask HN: "Is that work?"