Apple's new bootloader won't let you install GNU/Linux | Hacker News Reader

Apple's new bootloader won't let you install GNU/Linux

boingboing.net

62 pointspimeys35 comments

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(Copying my comment from the last time this appeared)

This has been duped many times. And wrong. There is an option to entirely disable secure boot.

See this for accurate info: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...

Dupes:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383250

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18396925

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383512

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18423560

This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux, only that you cannot boot Linux (or anything aside from macOS and Windows) with secure boot on, because you can't load your own trusted keys. Pretty much all other hardware in the price range allows you to load your own keys, and thus securely boot anything you want.

> This particular article doesn't claim the new Macs can't boot Linux

Yes it does. And it references the also incorrect phoronix article as evidence. It provides Chromebooks as an example with a hardware switch; the new T2 has an equivalent software switch. But the article ignores this and reads as if it's not possible to run Linux at all.

The article you posted seems to have been taken down. Do you have another link to the information?

EDIT: It was copy pasted wrong, here it is: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...

Thanks, I've corrected

Pretty sure you can choose to disable the secure boot options… from only the latest, to ones that were at one point trusted (old OSes), to no restrictions - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330

You can - but it also apparently disables storage access. So you can boot Linux but not install it.

Isn't that just a driver issue? Apple's T2 chip is a collection of customised hardware, no?

But if you really wanted to, you could still install a distro on USB I guess

I love the quality of apple hardware. I love knowing that the software was built for the hardware (or vice-versa, whatever). I do not enjoy configuring operating systems & desktop environments - I want to solve problems in the app I'm developing, not my development environment.

I have been delaying upgrading my MBP and iPhone, however, because I'm scared. I'm scared that the headphone-jack-removal, touchbar, locked-down-bootloader philosophy will continue, and I'll have to buy a thinkpad. I want to keep being an apple fanboy, but they're making it difficult.

I mean the reason to buy Apple is the Software and hardware combination. Why would you install Linux on a Mac when pretty much every other cheaper laptop is more suitable for that?

The laptop is their property; they don't need to justify how they want to use their own property.

Locking down the bootloader against the laptop owner's wishes is an attempt to de facto usurp the owner's basic property rights. Apple is not the owner of he laptop; they have no right to mandate how their product is used after the first sale.

After you bought it, it's your property. People tend to forget this. People are also allowed to install macOS on standard PC hardware, despite Apple crying "not allowed".

Not necessarily. Their hardware on its own is excellent, issues with keyboards notwithstanding.

Apple hardware was the most reasonable hardware to issue to OS developers.

Apple is forced to keep things as stable as possible since new OsX drivers are their problem.

You could also test every OS on the same hardware, which is the only use we had for OsX after setup tasks.

You're right. I've never even be tempted to install bootcamp. But maybe someday I will.

Fortunately, per above fact checker, disabling secure boot allows Linux installs.

I hope that someone works with Apple to sign some Linux distro(s), recognized by secure boot.

I deeply appreciate Apple's efforts to locking down their gear. But would still like the option of installing known good Linux, xBSD, Haiku, etc.

I was issued a Mac Air by my employer. OSX feels like an operating system for children. If this was in effect then, I would have just put the computer on the shelf as the toy it is.

For children, really? And Linux is for grown up adults with beards?

OS X is real certified Unix. What can’t you do with OS X that you could do with Linux?

off the top of my head:

* run containers natively

* customize / swap out the window manager/display manager

* run kvm virtual machines

* desktop fractional scaling

What do you get from KVM virtual machines that you don’t get from the various products available from the Mac - VMWare, Parallels, Virtual Box.

Run virtual machines in a more performant efficient manner.

Not needing to pay the licensing fees for vmware, parallells

Not needing to use a buggier hypervisor/manager such as virtualbox

Leverage qemu and all of it's benefits at full speed, such as emulating ARM devices

Not needing to pay the licensing fees for vmware, parallells

So you’re okay with paying at least $800 for the cheapest Mac that Apple sells, but my development Mac would at least be $1100 - $2000, but you don’t want to spend $79 on Parallel Fusion?

I do pay for vmware fusion, it's a great product. I'm simply stating differences between kvm and other hypervisors as you requested.

There is also the integrated Hypervisor.framework that seems to be gaining traction and I fully welcome that! But it's still not kvm: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/hypervisor

Qemu.

https://wiki.qemu.org/Hosts/Mac

I said run qemu at full speed, which requires kvm, which requires linux.

Install a compiler without an Apple account?

Why would you need an Apple account to install any other compiler besides XCode - something you wouldn’t be doing with Linux?

There's no pre-installed compilers on it (at least as of 2013) and Homebrew needed me to install XCode first before it could do anything.

Admittedly I stopped looking into it and just shelfed the laptop until requesting a saner one.

Which compilers?

Well, none? To install GCC, Homebrew wanted me to install XCode first. That’s when I gave up because nothing was installed there by default except for an outdated Bash.

http://osxdaily.com/2014/02/12/install-command-line-tools-ma...

But more to the point. Even if you didn’t know about that option you gave up because you didn’t want to sign up for a free account?

As if I needed more reasons to dislike Apple...

Let's hope there is enough community pushback to force Apple into making user modifications to trusted keys possible.

Since I can't edit anymore:

So this is apparently false, you can disable secure boot.

Still don't like apple though. :D

You’ll need to find different reasons, this article is flat out wrong. You can install Linux, you just need to disable secure boot.

Source: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-...

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