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Comment by samstave | Hacker News Reader

Exactly.

People who don't bike don't understand.

Imagine having to effectively park you car every single time a stop was legally required.

All moving vehicles should be operated safely, but obeying a stop sign, just because its a stop sign isnt always safe, or efficient.

@drRogers below me...

To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts.

There are myriad ways to design infra for non-stoppage cyclists.

How about we have entire zones where cars arent even allowed? If this were the case, then you'd have to design around mobility that didnt involve cars.

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I don't think anybody's saying you can't make a California stop as a bicyclist, when I say "blow through a red" or "blow through a stopsign," I'm talking about the bicyclists I see (every day) that disrupt the actual order of expected operation of the stop sign. I.e., moving out of turn, because they were unwilling to slow down.

And I get dinged at because I let cars (who have missed MULTIPLE of "their turns") go. I don't get it.

>To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts.

Uh. Roundabouts cost orders of magnitude more than stop signs and eat up several times as much space as a standard intersection.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabo...

>The average construction cost of roundabouts is estimated at approximately $250,000[2]. Roundabouts discussed in this report ranged in cost from $194,000 to just under $500,000, depending on their size (or "footprint" and right-of-way acquisitions that were needed.)

Let's see... 200k$ roundabout or sub 2k$ (probably sub 1k$) for 4 stop signs installed.

That's not a good comparison, you're neglecting the cost of actually building the non-roundabout intersection and just looking at the cost of the signs. Consider the cost to build each from scratch.

I assumed we're talking about existing intersections. This parent post is about San Francisco not Bumsville, Idaho.

Imagine having to effectively park you car every single time a stop was legally required.

Cars do come to a complete stop every time they reach a stop sign or red light. Those that don't tend to get very expensive tickets. Pedestrians also stop at intersections, usually, and those that don't tend to get tickets.

It's just cyclists who seem to think that they're above the law. Guess what? They chose an inefficient form of locomotion, then they get to live with the consequences of that--including stopping at intersections like the rest of us.

I have seen a lot of cars not come to a full and complete stop at stop signs if there's no traffic

I don't see why it should be any different for cyclists.

This argument, of course, does not apply to people going full-speed without yielding through a stop sign or traffic light

I've never had much of a problem stopping and starting on a bike. Not enough to make me ignore stop signs at least.

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