U.S. Says China State-Owned Company Stole Micron Secrets
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
Imagine if say, Sweden or Canada were to be the next upcoming superpower.
Another way to say it is - If China was a democratic nation with the highest level of freedom and openmindedness and fix the issues US has. I have nothing against any particular race.
Just venting out what kind of world I wish I would die to.
Like real estate bubble, culture and isolationism, ageing population, etc.
Inevitably, to reach superpower status requires bending others to your will. And there will always be those that oppose you.
Personally, I think once the US is gone and whatever happens afterwards happens, if history somehow remains accurate, I think people will see the last 75 years as a world-wide Pax America with the most benevolent world leadership that has ever existed. I'm sure I'll get downvoted to oblivion for this statement, but, big picture, the US has done more to provide peace and prosperity (and even freedom and justice) for a greater percentage of humanity than any other nation ever.
If you look over human history, the natural human state is generally oppression, warfare, starvation, and disease. We just might be reverting back to the mean.
I agree that the USA has impacted many many lives very positively. I don’t think this extends to an overall net “peace and prosperity” claim.
I didn’t downvote FWIW
As for razing entire cities, the Korean War saw the US essentially raze a country. To quote General LeMay
>We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too.
I don’t actually understand how you can even compare “transfer of wealth” and mass civilian casualties, let alone decide that the former is worth more.
The WW2 reference is a bit of a captain hindsight addition and easily the most controversial. I only said contributed, I would leave that out to make my point clearer next time.
the US was the only country on earth that had nukes for 5 years and was unscathed from WWII. We could have demilitarized and enslaved the entire planet under threat of nuclear death, but instead we gave away billions to help Japan and Europe rebuild. There's never been a more selfless act in human history as far as a country not seizing an opportunity to gain power is concerned. There's probably never been a larger power disparity between a single country and the rest of the world than post WWII USA, and they did exactly nothing to take advantage of that disparity.
US is far from perfect, mainly due to unconstitutional actions by our intel community and military, but as far as superpowers go there's really no comparison.
Oh come on, you cannot seriously believe that. Anyhow, I recommend you watch 'The Untold History of the United States' by Oliver Stone [0]. He has done a great job of telling people the stories that are not told in your history classes.
It was nice, sure, but don't confuse it with some greater selfless act.
> It sure was very selfless and noble of America not to wage world war 3 im a quest to enslave humanity, with your limited supply of first gen nukes and increasingly war weary population.
Maintaining a strong, authoritarian grasp on the entire world would require technology that (fortunately) did not exist during WWII and probably still not today. You'd just have civil wars, coups and terrorist attacks every other day. Your military would be spread thin across the globe. You'd basically have hundreds of countries in continuous state of insurrection like Afghanistan right now. It would cost the USA a fortune (and not just economically).
Giving these countries money in order to stabilize them and maintain "soft" influence makes a lot more sense in many cases.
> The main result, and probably the main aim, was to loot the fabulous art collection assembled in Prague Castle by Rudolph II, Holy Roman Emperor (1552–1612), the pick of which was taken down the Elbe in barges and shipped to Sweden
It's a nation that epitomises the phrase "Do as I say, not as I do" and surprise suprise, people hate that shit.
You have people shitting on China, US, Russia, then the next post is people shitting on the people shitting on China, US, Russia. The next post is something about Canada being so different than (insert superpower here) if they were a superpower, but the next comment is saying that they would be no different.
In the end, I'm pretty sure it's all stupid bullshit that really doesn't matter. I really doubt that any of these comments are going to change the world. I'm also pretty sure that there isn't a single country in this world that is all flowers and sunshine. Every place has their dirty laundry, and every place is made up of so many different pieces that it's almost always a poor call to say "that entire country is bad."
So very much like this comment, it adds nothing of value to the conversation. It's usually just people trying to "one up" others on the internet of whatever reason they feel to defend the place they like better than the others. Some are really good, insightful and well researched comments, don't get me wrong, but damn near every single thread about anything like this devolves into my side is better than your side after a short period of time.
Another example is people vehemently defending their color (red / blue) and saying that the color the other person likes better (red / blue) is the worst. I may be stupid and naive, but I do believe that there is a happy medium somewhere. Then again, my opinions don't matter to some because of where I was born I guess.
/before people get upset
I'm guilty of it as well. I'm guilty of all of the things I'm bitching about. I do try to change though because isn't that a part of growing up? Learning and changing to make the world (something of) a better place?
Anyway, as far as I can tell, it's just some newfangled tribe mentality and a bit of the ol' sunk cost fallacy. Who really likes being told they're wrong about something they are heavily invested in? I still get that feeling when reading some comments that that person can't be right, but I stop, read and maybe that comment is the one that changes my POV or maybe not.
The mind is still very mysterious.
It had some of the best medical technologies advancement, but also zero social health scare benefits and expensive that you can't afford it. It has some of the smartest people while also dumbest, they have some who are kind, quiet and hard working while others are rude, loud, and I may call them crazy.
Basically US is a nation of both heavens and hell. So focus on all the bad parts of US, some focus on all the good parts.
China is not 'cheating' more than any previous power. In fact, having been cheated badly they know that's there no such thing as playing nice.
As for 'Orwellian', there's a big difference between what you see on TV and reality...
It's like being told you can't judge what color an orange if you've never eaten one.
I won't reply to strawman arguments from people who have never set foot in China.
Suffice it to say that the epithet "Orwellian" does not represent life in China at all.
1. Government surveillance of domestic citizens is far more intrusive than in any Western country. (NSA revelations are not a refutation).
2. Prominent citizens get disappeared. There is little to no transparency in the judicial process.
3. There is no freedom of speech in China. You cannot criticize the government from within the borders effectively without being in danger.
4. China does not have a free Internet in the sense any Western country does.
5. Social credit scores exist, and will be used to reinforce the government's authority.
6. There are ongoing human rights abuses in China other than what I've already mentioned.
You can evade this all you want and talk about how nobody can possibly know about China unless they go there. But you can't refute any of these, so that is all you can do.
my father sued the company owned by Chinese vice Premier's son, he won the case after fighting it all the way to the supreme court.
we are average joes without any connection to those on the top. you can keep telling me how I am being repressed by the Chinese government, I will just look at you with sympathy as you are the victim of your brainwashing media.
If it was only a business issues, I don't doubt you could win. After all it is only money, which I am sure they have plenty of.
What I, as a foreigner, did experience in China was me being denied by 9 out of 10 non-4-5 star hotels, landlords refusing to let me rent there, even call my Chinese friend to inform him that foreigners are not allowed in the building when I borrowed the place during Spring festival. I've also experienced my weixin posts being shadowbanned, I've known two people who got deported (one simply because she refused to sleep with the disgusting visa officer). There's no process of appeal. You can try to go to court but they'll always side with their own, and if your visa gets denied then they are under no obligation to tell you why or for how long. While it's possible to enjoy life in China and live there for many years without issues, one day it will all come crumbling down.. it doesn't matter if you study at the best university, or work for a top company, or have millions invested in the country. The fact that they can so casually kidnap the interpol president, or their most famous movie star, should tell you that normal people, whether foreign or Chinese, doesn't stand a chance, and it's only a matter of time before the social credit system ends up affecting you and other people who choose to live in a bubble.
Use online checkin
> I've also experienced my weixin posts being shadowbanned
Get a new acc on a sim card bought for cash. Don't forget to spoof your imsi
> (one simply because she refused to sleep with the disgusting visa officer)
That's the situation where filling charges with procurator would've made sense. The tricks is to go to file charges with as many procurators as possible, like 20 or more of them. From district level, to municipal, to provincial. I personally know foreigners who, indeed, won court cases in China with civil torts against minor officials, with one actually being against an another procurator who refused to file charges of fraud against an Alibaba vendor upon a complaint.
> China and live there for many years without issues, one day it will all come crumbling down.. it doesn't matter if you study at the best university, or work for a top company, or have millions invested in the country.
Heard of Chinese Green card? Worth considering. At least with it, they can jail you, but they can't "get rid of you" easily.
Because sweden or canada are such wonderful utopias? Wonder why they have such small populations? Wonder why so many canadians and swedes leave their paradises?
> Another way to say it is - If China was a democratic nation with the highest level of freedom and openmindedness and fix the issues US has.
Neither canada nor sweden falls into this category. Both have draconian censorship rules and aren't "open minded".
> I have nothing against any particular race.
China isn't a race. It's a country.
> Just venting out what kind of world I wish I would die to.
You are free to move to canada and sweden, if they let you.
I would be surprised if they didn't have nearly the same freedoms we have in USA, if not more in some ways. A lot of their culture is based in confucianism as well, which makes their society different than USA.
We have an oppressive system with humanitarian issues, that's unapologetically Orwellian, that cheats and lies. Our workplaces are authoritatian. I don't see us as too much different, just the USA really doesn't want to lose their #1 economic superpower status, so we're inundated with low quality propaganda. We're both capitalistic systems, China is not economically communist or the people would own the means of production.
https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/rapporteur-United-Natio...
Wrong. Try speaking out against the US government in any meaningful way and you'll be murdered by it. Dissent is not welcome here and you will be punished for it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
>A social credit score which can limit my ability to associate with certain people, get good employment, good housing, and unrestricted travel.
How is this different than our credit score system and 80% of people living paycheck to paycheck? Employers check it, housing checks it, travel is about to implement face scanning. Not seeing a huge difference here. There aren't even many good jobs (https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1809629002If). If we don't fully have it yet, we sure as shit will soon.
Everything we do is tracked, watched, listened to, recorded. Look up and view all of the easily hackable cameras loaded with back doors literally everywhere. It's really not much different than what we're told about China. Talking in work Slack I often get "move to Signal" because our workplaces are authoritatian and strip you of your rights when you walk in the door.
Are there even any examples so far of China's social credit having any effect on anyone?
It's hilarious that the evidence you give to back up your position is a wikipedia article about a well-known stain on American history from forty years ago.
> Fujian Jinhua Integrated Circuit Co.
> and Taiwan’s United Microelectronics Corp.
> were indicted in California
> along with three individuals,
> the Justice Department said Thursday.
If people didn't know, their heads were in the sand. The same way people don't recognize that there are world religions that want to do away with all secular governments and install their religious governments.
Look up the first war the US was engaged in 200 years ago, you mayb be surprised to know it's the same group we now call "terrorists" today.
US biggest threat is the national debt and the unfounded and underfunded liabilities.
The national debt is really not a problem as long as the USD still the world reserved currency. How the reserved status may change because of China and that’s the real threat.
Tibet? Taiwan? Vietnam? South Korea (by proxy)?
[I should note that I find these types of discussions useless in the first place. No problem among living humans was ever solved by arguing over whose ancestors were less barbaric...]
They were later Sinicized after several generations.
If you think about it like this it explains everything that the government has been doing for decades. They limit the population growth so that they can feed everyone and keep discontent down. They focus on the economy to keep discontent down. They build regional and world status to create pride in a greater, unified China. Even their tv shows and movies glorify themes which show a united China as one, and always the government are the good, humble servants. Military power, technological independence, even hostility towards other countries is mostly to build patriotism and unity among their own people.
And of course they restrict the internet, control the media, and limit what people can see and say.
Even when China was being successfully invaded by the Japanese, the existing government was more concerned with the Communist revolution. When they finally got desperate and banded together with the Communists to fight the Japanese, they lost ... to the Chinese Communists who took the opportunity to overthrow them.
So in that sense, it is helpful to understand the Chinese government and the things they are likely to do, and how to interpret them.
LOL! Tell this to Vietnam, Philippines, Mongolia, and most of their frightened neighbors.
So is the common believe of a group of people enough? Or does it need the recognition of others?
Partly, it depends on whether the debate over nation status is a merely one of linguistics and categorisation or whether we're making ethical arguments.
When Japan annexed Korea, did the Korean people cease to constitute a nation? When Japan annexed Taiwan, did Taiwan cease to rightfully belong to the Chinese government of the time?
(As an aside, I think that no-one talking about the Taiwanese company's involvement in IP theft is a pretty good example of how the press is incentivised to lead with a sensationalised narrative that inflames sentiments, how people focus on facts that fit a pre-existing narrative, and a general bias against China).
Thanks for the link. But may I ask which of the above 4 countries are you calling “terrorists”?
I think their point is broader than just being generic attack against Islam though, for example there are plenty of Hindu nationalists and Christian Nationalists (Google State Representative Matt Shea in the Washington State) that would love to establish a Hindu or Christian nation by force.
Would you kindly provide an example like you provided for a Christian nationalist?
https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/rising-hindu-nat...!
Kudos. It is difficult to criticize an ideology without being blamed to be hateful of its adherents
Eating apples will make me less hungry and so will eating rocks. That means eating rocks is the same thing as eating apples.